Ray's Boost

raymond said:
Thanks guys...!! I just have to regroup, focus, rob a bank and hit it one more time :wink: I will definitly pick this up again. Would be a pitty to have been that close and leave it be. But for now i really have to sort things out and take my time.....luckely it is no daily driver for me and.........i'm used to these long projects :bulgy-eyes:( Not funny actually, but the thruth by now )
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Ha - you sound like me near the end of my own build - beaten into submission! The reality of a full custom build is way beyond what most people can understand if they have never done it themselves. It takes more time and more money than any turnkey estimate I have ever seen.

Talking to a few other guys that have done big builds like this, they all agree the absolute best way to get a project done is to go to a shop, give them a budget and then walk away. They will select and use only what you NEED, not just what you want. Hopefully those two things are not mutually exclusive! I might try this with a future project but for the FX I WANT to be involved with all the small details.

We say this at NASA all the time - we can do ANYTHING

with enough time and money.
 
raymond said:
Was that break in oil semi or full synthetic that you know...?? I wanted to go 10W60 Castrol RS ( or castrol X is it called nowadays). Also could get my hands on 15W50 race oil. But thought the 60 be best......i had the idea the 5W35 i now had when getting warmer would be too thin. As when it was cold it didn't rattle that much....
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The problem with thicker oil is the higher pressures. I had start up rattles with the race oils, switched to a more normal blend and it went away. Also for my own driving habits when I would do long drives to and from cities for shows because I have no thermostat on the oil cooler it was open all the time so cruising cool evening or overnight drives the pressures would be overly high for no reason.
 
Wow ray. Sorry to hear. Keep us posted as you get going again.
BTW, you gonna be out here in November?
 
what I always thought from back in the day was that you shouldn't break-in a motor with synthetic oil, it protects the surfaces so well that it doesn't allow the surfaces to wear in and mate properly, which is what break in really is. You actually want some things to wear on a brand new motor, some things like rings, cylinder walls and bushings need to wear in to provide full, even flat surface contact, I doubt this had much if anything to do with your failure really, lots of guys do break in with synthetics too but I think a motor will break in best with conventional dino oil, I'd change the oil a few times at very short intervals and then switch out to synthetic at around 2-3k miles personally
 
turbocad6 said:
what I always thought from back in the day was that you shouldn't break-in a motor with synthetic oil, it protects the surfaces so well that it doesn't allow the surfaces to wear in and mate properly, which is what break in really is. You actually want some things to wear on a brand new motor, some things like rings, cylinder walls and bushings need to wear in to provide full, even flat surface contact, I doubt this had much if anything to do with your failure really, lots of guys do break in with synthetics too but I think a motor will break in best with conventional dino oil, I'd change the oil a few times at very short intervals and then switch out to synthetic at around 2-3k miles personally
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I had 10W40 semi synthetic for the first time. But at certain point it seems i missed 2 cylinders and the top cam sensors in front didn't get enough oil pressure, so change to 5W35 full synthetic and the problem was gone. BTW this issue did not occure straight away from the beginning.

rookie said:
The problem with thicker oil is the higher pressures. I had start up rattles with the race oils, switched to a more normal blend and it went away. Also for my own driving habits when I would do long drives to and from cities for shows because I have no thermostat on the oil cooler it was open all the time so cruising cool evening or overnight drives the pressures would be overly high for no reason.
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With both oils i used ( see above here ) i had no reall oil pressure issues i noticed on the Camp2 sensor. Against 6 bar ( 87 Psi ) with cold start towards 1.8 ( 26 PSI ) till 3 Bar ( 43 PSi ) when hot and on the throttle. So in your opinion you would not recommend 10W60 ?? A guy i know who did some build recommende me also to stay with the 10W40 or your 5W40.

Got my second pair of heads. Deciding if i want to go for tuner cams again or stay with oem. I have a credit at Z1Auto after a lot of BS and trying to get that straightend out after 2 years. So try te get these parts trough him as he ows me. But after some google search i found more people having the same issues with him so i wonder. Stopped by his adress 3 weks ago when i was in NYC, but unfortunatly a PO Box adres.
Am stoppin by the builder this week so double check all the parts with him to try to find out what happend and can be used again.

Brad ( Jumbo ): I know, and i share your opinion that if i could have do it over again i would just by a plug and play kit. But In reality it is a stadard turbonetics kit. I might have done best to just put it on my stock engine.
Letting someone else do it i understand what you mean. Thing is that the faillure is due to oem parts ( most lickely) so i wonder if they would warranty that or just put up there shoulders and blame the parts. In the end you will pay way more and still not certain if they would warrent thing like happend to my engine right now.

Dave: No man......i hit NYC 3 weeks ago so not LV for me this year. I wish though but don't have the funds....now especially :wink:
 
theMerchant said:
Ray.

Sorry to hear about all the troubles.
Someone once said, enjoy the journey ....

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 2
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Yeah i did.....especially when all the nice stuff came together. But at the end you kinda loos your patience, cause all BS like troubleshoot and small things take up a lot of time.
You see it sitting there in the garage and just want to ride it.
 
The first time on the dyno when my engine "went south" I was distraught. Second time I was pissed. Third time it was in the shop i never saw it and I was not happy but not overly angry. Not that it gets easier (and any cheaper) but for all the surgeries that go well once in awhile the doctor misses something......

Hang in there man and keep pushes forward, the more time that passes between your efforts the more things can be forgotten.

Lance
 
Ok just trowing this out here cause i cannot seem to find any thing on google in why my main timing chain was tensioned so extreme hard by the left tensioner and its guide ( when standing in front of the engine). Only discussions i can find is about the VDC side chains and the tensioners there,but none on the main chain outter then the guide breaking sometimes.
Thinking out loud, could this might have happen with mapping the ecu/car.......that we might have had a backfire or so, cause room on the chain and extending the tensioner promptly. Cause i seem to remember nothing being wrong with any noizes before i dropped it of for mapping.
Don't want to put the finger to anyone cause they will always denie, but just want to find the issue so i can avoid this shit the next time.....hopefully.

Anyone have any ideas...?? Appriciate it....kind lost here right now.....
 
That tensioner on the left is the only one that I recall seeing. Not sure how any slack could exist in the system if its the last step in the install. Was the upper guide or water pump replaced after the tensioner was installed?

Here's a shot of mine:
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erynyjub.jpg

SfmDRuT2
 

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The tensioner in the red "circle" was the one that was fully extended and created extreme tension on my main chain and therefor sort to say pulled the front of my cranck upwards.

The tensioner in the green circle ( i think not mounted in your picture so to see ) is the one that often fails and creats slack on that chain causing it to rattle when you start the engine.

My main focus is on the main chain issue. I found the the guides would sometimes break but i think that was not the case in my situation. Have to double check that. Still if so, that wouldn't cause the tensioner to extened fully like that.
 
Right, we're talking about the main chain tensioner. I just don't see how it could over-extend. Its the only tensioner on that chain, is not adjustable (spring loaded), and everything else in the loop is fixed. Its not like the belt system where a person could actually tighten the tensioners too far, causing excess lift on the crankshaft...


SfmDRuT2
 
tchuck said:
Right, we're talking about the main chain tensioner. I just don't see how it could over-extend. Its the only tensioner on that chain, is not adjustable (spring loaded), and everything else in the loop is fixed. Its not like the belt system where a person could actually tighten the tensioners too far, causing excess lift on the crankshaft... SfmDRuT2
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Sorry about my late reply. We took a closer look and i talked to some engine builders as well. It is still not a 100% certain but it more and more looks like my engine had a back fire. Most likely happened with the Tune but nodoby told me off course. So the new theory is due to the back fire at a certain point there was slack created in the main timing belt. The main tensioner is not oil pressured and has a certain lock up system. So once it extens a tooth it locks up and cannot go back anymore. IMO at the time the chain slacked the tensioner extended maximum......after a split second the chain came back at its original position and got tightend extremly. The way we could see the damage was done due to the chain being way to tight was that the front of the cranck was more out of line ( wobbeling) then the back and the same with the cams. Cranck was pulled upwards and vdc sprockets with cams downwards damaging the bearings and pulling the cams into my heads. If the backfire is a 100% the thing what happend i don't know but people tell me that is a big reason why there would be any slack created in the chain. That the chain killed my engine is without a doubt.
Soms still say that the heavier BC valve springs i used could have been the reason why there was created any slack in the chain. Heavier spring would make the turning of the cams harder and therefore created slack in the chain but i cannot find anything of such issues when doing a surch on the net. So i am in doubt wether to use these again or not.
Also one of the oilseals of the pistons failed and brock creating a groove in my already overbored block. So if i want to fix this i would need to go to a another overbore size wich means custom ordered pistons and gaskets. And i do not want to do that.

So in the end......heads.....cams.....pistons......block and cranck died on me......

Luckely i already bought another engine and we picked up the project again last week. New HKS cams will come in next week and working on the pistons also.
Realy want the car running when spring/summer comes and i can finally enjoy this thing again.
 
Painful Ray, who is going to handle the build this time? My suggestion, use the best and plan out every detail to the gnats ass.
 
Update:

Guys.....!! I'm still alive :smile (2): just wanted to lett you know that everything is still in progress. This fail as mentioned before really hit me hard and i am gathering all the parts i need again. Timing chains....sprockets.....oilpump.....all will new again. Just found out last week that the Rods are worn as well and need to be repaired with special pistons drilled in them. The heads are alll done and waiting. MAchineshop is working on the block this week but called me yesterday that somethings seem to be wrong with the pistons and its rings not being the same size. So i am really hoping everything being able to put together real soon.
Still not a 100% certain what caused this whole mess but thoughts are more and more going towards wrong oil.

As if this doesn't set me back financially a guy came by last month and wanted to buy my wheels whom i just had custom painted in the color of the car.
But he liked it anyways and with me being a wheel guy and chaning them every half a year on my last car i thought it was time for me to lett them go.
Thing is....that beging that wheel guy and selling nice brands in the past.....nothing isn't really on my standards.
I always told guys who came in my shop having a nicely build show car that the wheels are very important and have to match the rest of the car in quality. So my conclusion...?? 3-piece full forged......only problem for now is that my wallet doesn't really agree with that.....:eek.:
 
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