modified struts & suspension

i took some pics of the front modified struts..., I will have to wait to do the rears.

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looks like I could have gone another 1/4 inch , but its good now since I will be switching to a taller tire next change (265-40-22)
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alignment (camber) look pretty good eyeballing it .... will have to have it check when all is finished
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here is the final shot
(there is about a 2 finger gap, and the rears currently have a 3 finger gap)
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so currently the front is sitting 16" from hub to wheel well. and the rear is about ~1/2 higher. I will do the rear spring upper mount mod to get it more even.
Like turbo said, it doesnt look that low! lol of coarse he is sitting much lower.
 
looking good alan, you cut anything from the spring? I'm a little confused cause I'm at 15 1/2" where your at 16", but I did an extra 1/2" on my strut cause of the shorter tire, so with uncut spring you should be a little more than 16" I think... I think you measured at 16 7/8" before... trying to figure out how 3/4" strut mod, which will drop you slightly less than full 3/4", prolly around 5/8" or so... how it came to 16" even, I think 16" even would bring you to around 1 finger clearance too, you should have exactly the same clearance at 16 that I have at 15 1/2" I think... maybe it's slightly more than 16"? from my calculations you should be at around 16 1/4"+ unless you cut some spring?
 
I didnt cut the front spring.
I actually measured a little differant this time....

A=I measure from the ground to wheel well.
B=I measured the total wheel height.
-divide the total wheel height by 2 then subtract A

A - (B/2) = X
X = 16

I rechecked the drop before...

it is possible that I measured wrong, especially since we are talking about a few 1/16 of a inch.
 
yeah, I think you might be off by at least 1/4" or more really in your measurement from what I'm seeing here... at a true 16" your front wheel gap should be exactly like mine, & that should take a 1/2 coil cut for you to get there... then you'd want to bring the rear down ~3/4" total, I'd recommend the rear control arm welding to get that, just the spring mount upper rubber cut won't get you there really....

if you have no intensions of cutting a coil ever then just the upper rear spring mount mod should be adiquate to level you with a slight rake at where your at now...


if you think you might want to cut a spring later then you could do 1/2" rear lower arm mount mod now, then if you decide to cut a 1/2 coil front later you'd be able to match this at that point by then cutting the rear upper spring mount rubber... or I guess you could do the oposite & just do the upper spring mount cut now & then later if you cut a 1/2 coil then get into touching the rear arm mod at that point...

& yeah, with this you should try to measure acurately, every 1/16th counts when your trying to really compare... I think your measurements are a little bit off...
 
Alan, thanks for the pics. Your tires have the same OD as mine, so it's great to be able to see exactly what mine would look like. I have a 3 finger gap front and rear, for a somewhat good comparison.
 
turbocad6 said:
.....
& yeah, with this you should try to measure acurately, every 1/16th counts when your trying to really compare... I think your measurements are a little bit off...
Click to expand...



how should I measure accurately? I think trying to figure out the center of the wheel is the hardest part and most inaccurate. What I came up with seems more accurate, unless you can give me some pointers on how to measure.

A - (B/2) = ride height

A=total height from ground to wheel well
B=total height of rims and tire.
 
Measuring to the center of the axle would be best. However, your formula looks spot on. Only thing I can think of is that some tires get squashed at the contact patch, and might lose a little bit of OD.
 
The center of the wheel should be the axle. I'm not sure about our axles, but I know some has a little hole in the center you can see when you take off the lug cover. I think your method is best for having the most people do it correctly.
On a side note, did you get that PM I sent?
 
I will measure again tomorrow after some more driving...


I dont know if this will make sense relating to the finger spaceing...

a stock 265/50/20 has a diameter of 30.4 in, the tire I am running is 285/35/22 which has a diameter of 29.9 (according to the tire calculator).
So thats a 1/2 difference (total, meaning 1/4 inch to the wheel well from top of tire). I will be putting on a 265/40/22 tire (diameter 30.3), I know different tire manufactures will vary on the actual diameter.

what ever it is, Im 3/4 inch lower than stock H&Rs ! thanks to the info provided in this thread. thank you again turbocad and Pelon
 
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copied this here from the drop thread...


I measure with a straight edge, from the very center of the very center of the center cap... the bullseye, dead center... right up to the edge of the fender.


yes the slight angle from the wheel to the fender is a slight difference but nothing compared to the inacuracies other methods could bring.

the accurate way for a critical measurement would remove the angle from the equation. torpedo level is probably a little more accurate, a lazer pinpoint level & a plum bob would be absolute, but a straight edge from the lip to the center is where my measurements are taken, think it's acurate enough & repeatable & less room for error simple


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ok, I know I said I'd stop, leave it as-is fo now & that it was good enough, but the back just bouncing more than the front & the body roll was just driving me crazy, it was prety good with the airshocks, but not really right either, thought I could just leave it alone but, well... I can't

the problem with the airshock was it was for a smal vehicle & didn't give enough dampening overall. I wanted to try a more heavy duty shock more suited to the weight of the fx so I tried a gas magnum for a ford pickup truck, much much better shock for the job, compression & rebound dampening both greatly improved over the suzuki airshock, had to space the spring back up though to make up for the no airshock.... it was better, BUT it still suffers from the spring rate just being too low, now even more so that with the airshock, the rear was just too soft even with a gas magnum, too much body roll & too much bounce, too much travel overall too.

cutting the rear spring would raise the spring rate, but I would have to make a new spring seat & the rear was something that I'd rather avoid cutting... without cutting the rear the only way to add to the spring rate was to add spring. the airshocks did this to a certain extent but sacrificed too much...

I finally found what I think is going to be the perfect solution to add springrate & reduce body roll & provide a heavy duty shock... check it out:









this was the gas magnum:


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and this is the solution to adding spring rate & adding heavy duty shock absorbsion:
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now the rear feels really planted, the body roll is much reduced, the ride is a bit firmer, but the rear doesn't bounce up & down more than the front anymore... only a little seat time with the coilovers added but so far I think it feels much better. I had to drop the H&R a bit to make up for the added lift this did, I winded up using a lower spring seat in place of the upper spring seat. I think this may be a better way than trying to cut the original upper spring seat even, & it gives slightly more drop than even with the cut seat..

even with this, the rear did wind up coming up a total of slightly more, has a bit of a rake now... gonna see how it settles in but I think it loks good with a bit of a rake, maybe don't look quite as slammed, but looks aggressive anyway... this is how it sits with the dual rear spring settup right now...



EDIT: updated daytime shots added few posts down :)


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Are these coilovers a straight bolt up if we are already lowered? Any mods you have to make to accept the part? (What is the part number?)
 
I can't.. I just get obsessed, I try to stop myself but I just can't help myself from researching & thinking of solutions when I have a problem like this... may not be so good for me but I just get to the point that solving this becomes my consuming priority over all else, drives me nuts when I'm close to a solution but not really there yet either...

the rear coil overs are monroe sensatrac load leveling shocks, they are fitment for an econoline van. they are designed to increase the load carrying capacity by about 1,200lb's, these springs are not anywhere near enough to actually carry the vehicle, there not designed for that, they are more of a helper spring in this application, & they do exactly what I needed which was to increase the spring rate, while providing extra compression & rebound dampening... my calculations puts these as ~ an extra 20% or even slightly more increase in spring rate, slightly more than I ideally wanted, but much closer to ideal overall... with a little tinkering there I should be able to modify them to perfect, or, the other alternative is to now try & add slightly to the front spring rate too, which is another option & maybe the best one for overall handling benifit... before the back felt much more bouncy than the front, now it got to the point that the front is very slightly more bouncy than the rear :tongue: it's much closer to ideal balance though

I did loose a little comfort, but added big time to the stability & handling & it has not made it very uncomfortable either, just a bit more sporty feeling really...


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here is the difference between the stock upper mount, a cut upper mount & a stock lower mount. I'm very comfortable with a lower seats ability of keeping the spring centered as used in an upper application like this, & it may even be more durable long term than even a cut upper seat, as I have noticed that my cut upper seat has started to show signs of deterioration with cracks at the spring end. note that these cracks are not detrimental or a safety issue in any way, many cars will develop stuff like this long term at the springs end... the worse that will usually happen in a case like this is, if the spring end winds up penetrating enough to make metal to metal contact then this can be a source of noise... mine made no noise at the point it has gotten to though

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jumbosrule said:
Are these coilovers a straight bolt up if we are already lowered? Any mods you have to make to accept the part? (What is the part number?)
Click to expand...


for the most part they are bolt in, but if everything else is left as is they will def raise the rear. you will need to install these along with replacing the upper spring mount with a lower to make up the difference, end result should be approx the same height you are now but stiffer & much less bouncy. only problem I see is, if your not cut 1/2 coil in the front then these will make the rear much stiffer relative to the front & may not be ideal, remember that my front was stiffer than my rear because of the 1/2 coil cut & this was brung into place as a solution for that, adding these with stock front springs & you'll be throwing the balance off more instead of improving it, stock uncut H&R's are pretty well balanced front to rear out of the box, although not really stiff enough for performance use, which is why there are a lot of guys who prefer the eibachs in the first place

---------- Post added at 04:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:57 PM ----------

what I'm doing here is just research & development & tweeking. I like using off the shelf components that are inexpensive, repeatable & easily replaceable for what I'm trying to do, which is get my fx to sit ride & handle as good as I want it to.


changing the rear shocks & springs & stuff is super easy to do, & I have all the pdfs that contain every monroe shock available & the data, dimesions & mounting configurations of each, then the part #'s can be cross referenced to other manufacturers. I have found bilstiens that are ~$150 a pair that would work in this application that would be better suited to an application that isn't looking to increase spring rate. that alone is probably an upgrade over the oe fit kyb's in the rear, but of course I can't try every possible combination myself either, but I don't mind trying several different ones to find out which is really best for me.


this pair of coilovers that I used can be bought online as cheap as $90... I paid $130 local parts store for same day delivery. the gas magnums were even less... the air shocks were more & cost me around $160. each of these are at least OE quality & probably better than the stock OE kyb fitment replacements. there is even a rancho 9000 adjustable rear shock with 9 different adjustment settings that can be used in this application on our fx's. also in the ~$150 range a pair. I considered these but they do nothing for my spring rate problem...

I guess I'd rather spend the same money for the testing & adjusting & development costs here & wind up with a finely tuned suspension that really works well for me than spend like $1,500 for a set of coilovers made for a murano & then wind up maybe not being happy with the end results & not be able to do much about it...

when I'm really done I should have a few different recipes for a nice performance suspension that is not too hard to do, readily available inexpensively & easily duplicatable I think. the proof to me is in the drive, kieran & several others who have driven it already before universally agree & confirm what I believe, that it is a nice improvement over stock already, I think it is even better now, & with a little more tweeking I think I can get it to be what I'll consider great, or at least really really good, then track test it again eventually...
 
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