modified struts & suspension

not yet, gota paint them caliper color first:laugh:, or black

---------- Post added at 02:22 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:48 AM ----------

just measured before alignment, shouldn't change much though...



fronts 15 & 3/16 left & right

rears are at 15-2/16" L&R at ~60psi in the airshocks


that's 3" drop from factory height in the front & 1/8th of an inch less than that drop for the rear... surprisingly I still don't think it looks too low to me :tonguey: the inch shorter tire really works at this height I think.... now I have to get new winter tires though, my stock sized yoko's can't even fit back on here now:laugh:
 
I don't know what happened to the pictures I put up yesterday... I attached them like normal & I saw them there after, but there gone now???


anyway, I'll put a few for now to see what it looked like last night before the alignment.


I did the alignment, me & my mechanic togeather, I learned exactly how to do the alignment on his machine & learned about his machine, crazy big $$$ hunter computerized setup, he does alignments for a lot of shops & dealers & he does a lot of limos & stuff, so he went for an upscale more elaborate setup, very nice... the wheel sensors alone are like $16k... all wireless infrared... nice toy to play with :tongue:


I looked at the fx specs & I looked at the G35 specs & I kinda went in between.... the fx runs a bit more toe in the rear stock than a g or a z or many sedans really, so I went with a little less total toe for a bit less drag & better tire wear... rear camber I went with .8 ~ the fx stock camber spec...

front I went a bit more towards the g spec's too, the g runs slightly less camber in the front , fx called for .73 where the g was calling for only .25... z is .33 I think, I went .50, good all around balance... also total toe is a bit less on the g's & the z's, so I went with slightly less toe too, again, less drag & better tire wear... fx spec was .13 total toe, g is .o8, I went around g spec.

haven't had her on the hwy yet but she should be good at these specs... if it feels slightly sketchy or unstable & twitchy at higher speeds then I may have to add slightly to the toe, bit more scrub but add to the stabilization if necissary but I don't think so, I think it should be pefect at these specs with the wider tires...

now the really wild part & what impressed me the most about the rear mods that I did... I was able to get the rear alignment to 100% pefect to the spec I needed with no alterations or modifications at all to any of the factory adjustment points, didn't even need to use any of the offset camber bolts even in the rear... that's pretty crazy.... I can't believe that it worked out so well that it's perfect... almost 3" drop in the rear & pefect alignment within factory adjustment range.... even the techs at his shop that saw it couldn't believe it. that upper arm relocate was the thing to do for sure in my case, amazing results from just that...

after the alignment was all done, I tested what the alignment would do if I raised it all the way with the air shocks & then lowered it all the way too... at 120psi the camber fell to exactly g spec, at around .6... at 30 psi it went to 1.0...

alignment was done with 3/4 tank of fuel & 200lbs of weight added to the front drivers seat... I had the rear shocks at 80psi for the static alignment...

heres a few shots from last night, before the alignment. I took away a little front camber since these shots though so the front tire top is out even a little more from whats shown here, may not need any spacer at all...

this is how I pictured it when I ordered the wheels:

1


1


1


1


1
 
I love playing with this thing, prolly put it back up on the machine again after driving it a while & recheck everything, maybe try a few different toe specs to feel the difference it makes, really dial it in, but I think these specs should be good...

1


1
 
^^^ thats a great formula.
1




do you think if I gave this to the tech, they would do it to these specs? (not dealer)

---------- Post added at 11:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:58 PM ----------

hows its drive with this setup? :wub:
 
it's kinda hard to really recommend altering stock alignment specs cause every setup is a bit different, normally I'd say don't change anything unless you know why your changing it, & even then you still have to monitor it & get feedback to see if it's really an improvement or a hinderance... to really set a car up to ideal specs can take a lot of trial & error too & a few times on & off the alignment rack, altering & trying it, then altering it again & trying it, reading how the car reacts, handles at the limits of traction, some "track time", even if your track is your local neigborhood & parking lots, also monitoring tire wear & reading scrub patterns, body roll vs. camber curve... also depends on weather you are trying to tune for maximum cornering ability, maximum tire life under normal street driving, somewhere inbetween... theres much more to it than "this is the right number to set it to period."


factory specs are a great starting point & probably where you want to be if your all stock of course, but once you start making changes then there can be advantages had by altering the specs to better suit the changes you make.


toe adds stability, but also adds scrub & wear & rolling resistance... it is important to have some toe though for stability... the fx has a bit extra toe front & rear to make it stable safe & secure for the average driver under average conditions with the stock suspension ... I decreased body roll by lowering the center of gravity, stiffened up the suspension a little with the added springrate from the cut front coil & the air shocks in the rear & also have a wide contact patch with an ultra high performance summer tire all around, so I decided to try a bit less toe front & rear... I'm happy with the way it tracks & feels so far as far as toe, but don't mean that you should do exactly the same really... guess you can come down slightly from stock though... rear toe you can go higher 20's total toe, ~.28 or so... fronts maybe just a little less total toe than stock, try around .11 or so...... both conservative, but both should be improvements really... I have a little more base tuning to do before I can really say if I need to add any toe anywhere, mainly I need to add a bit of rebound dampening to the rear & decrease the rear body roll a bit...

front camber I'd say you should stay around the stock spec, I may actually bring mine a bit up from the .50, but want to see how much more I can stabilize the rear body roll before deciding I need to do that, still get quite a bit of rear inner lift on really hard cornering, this really scrubs the outside of the front tire hard when the body is rolling as much as a bigger heavier body like this just does... if you push it hard through curves all the time then a bit more camber in the front on a big vehicle like this can be good, but if you drive conservative then all the extra camber will do for you is wear the insides of your front tires faster...


it's all a balance, bottom line is beating the heck out of it hard all the time & you will inevitabally wear out the tires, there just consumables, if your always riding hard corners & wearing out the outside edge of your front tires then more camber can help a lot, your doing so much wear on the outside though that your not worried about the inside wearing more on the long straight normal driving, what good is a tire that is so worn on the outer edge that it's showing steel belts, yet the inner part is still like new?.... be much better to share the wear by having the inner wear more on straight aways & but wear a bit less on the outer edge as it's cornered hard... drive normal & this is less of a concern... now you can see why there is no one number that is just the "right" spec... end desire is to use a spec that consumes the tire as completely & evenly as practical while maintaining stability & predictable handling...


a car with a perfect alignment to factory specs that is driven like it's stolen all the time will have much different wear patterns than the same car being driven by a little old lady back & forth to church...

as far as the rear camber, on a lowered spring fx with a cut upper spring seat, I know that the camber curve is increased quite a bit just from the geometry changes that the drop creates alone, so there I'd highly recommend less rear static camber than stock spec... how it works is, rarely as you drive is the contact patch of the tire just static even load, as you drive even on relatively smooth roads your tire contact patch is always varying, like the car is going up & down... this is what causes the wear on the inside, compound this with a steeper camber curve & what happens is even through curves the tire will wear even more on the inside, so I would def recommend reducing the static camber a bit there... maybe a .4 or so, if not a little less even, but again, gotta keep an eye on it & the wear patterns, & how aggresive or conservative you drive makes a difference too, but I'd def reduce the rear static camber a bit with that drop...


then, after it's all setup in the end, ultimate handling at the limits can be a concern for some too... lets say after everything is set you take it out & see that she's plowing in the front, understeering at the limits & beyond, & you want to improve this... take away a bit of the understeer & bring it closer to slight oversteer, which is usually the best all around target & makes some of the best handling, most predictable & easiest to drive past the limits cars... you can check camber & maybe increase front camber a bit if that's where it's lacking, or you can also increase front toe to give the front a bit more stabilty... then of course there are other things you sure can't change as easily too like front vs rear antiroll bar adjustments as we have none... or compression & rebound dampening, spring rates... there are whole books dedicated to the art of how to make a car handle & track well & I can't tell everything in one post, but remember that even stock "correct" numbers are nothing but a good starting point, absolutely not the only "correct" specs for all situations & setups as many people think... a highly modified & upgraded suspension will surely work better if tweeked to work with the changes rather than just blindly following the factory specs...

so end recommendation from me for a ~2" dropped fx that's a bit more firm with a bit less supension travel than stock from me would be: ~stock front camber, a bit less than stock rear camber, & slightly less toe than stock front & rear... then monitor... unless your always driving it like your trying to flip it these should be good numbers to go with as a base suspension tune...



overall so far my car rides & handles increadible as it's base tune & I'm very pleased with it so far, very impressive for a thing as big as the fx & still very comfortable, everyone who's driven it is very impressed, but that don't mean that it still couldn't benifit from more tweeking... I've been pushing the limits more & more, & I really have to add to the rear rebound dampening & rear anti roll before I can see what else can improve... right now these are my tweeks to get to the next level... going to add another shock in the rear & seperate the air chambers so the outer one under load can't transfer & loose pressure to the inner as the inner unloads.... but that don't mean it's not fine now.. could leave it as is too & call it done, don' have to go to the limits & past them really I guess, but it's fun to have it handle so well & it'd be more fun if it handled even better... right now I'd say where it suffers slightly is on bumpy high speed sweeping turns... the back just gets upset & the rear wallows a bit... rebound out back is weak because of the lighter rear shocks...
 
should be tracking the fx at pochono raceway tommorow, anxious to see what a driving instructor/pro race car driver will think of the ride & handling with these suspension modifications... to me it just handles like it's on rails & feels even more comfortable than stock to boot...

had an infiniti tech/shop manager drive it, he was impressed with it too... his first comment was wow, I always hated the way the fx handles bumps, how it feels like it's skipping left to right & bouncing around, but this don't do that, it feels like a g sedan...

after a lot of driving on this setup I'd feel comfortable even recommending the air shocks that I'm using for a lowered fx, they feel very good even with a bit less rebound dampening & all...

now that suspension height is not an issue as with these mods the fx can go almost as low as you'd ever want to go, next thing to work on later is to try & mod the front strut housing to accept a billstien or koni adjustable strut insert... rears are easy to fit a great shock to but the fronts are not, so far kyb is the only choice, but if a good strut insert can be made to work then were talking even better ride & handling... comparing a billstien to a kyb is like comparing a kia to a benz... a full bilstien or koni adjustable setup would be very very sweet...
 
dave, can't do it, I still need to paint them & then I'll want to realign after installing them too... my plan is to get enough seat time as-is to really be able to feel the difference after they are installed, plus I still have the issue of the stillen exhaust not clearing one of the rear bars that I have to work out ... only thing I'll do for tommorow is seperate the left & right air shock on there own individual air system rather than shared, should help reduce body roll a bit... def need to find a way to upgrade the swaybars too eventually...



I wouldn't expect any really high end adjustable shock/strut applications to become available specifically for us ever, there are probably only very few who would ever consider the fx for this type setup, gotta be custom done, but it shouldn't be too hard to retrofit a different cartridge to the fx strut body... should be pretty easy really, hardest part will be identifying the best fit insert to start with, but I'm pretty confident that it is very doable & shouldn't be that difficult even. fx is a whole different animal when it handles like it's on rails, I love driving it even more now...
 
yes it is, but even within this limitation I was able to get a full 3" suspension drop out of the front with my size tires, which also give another 1/2" drop to the body for 3 1/2" total drop, so I'd say that's about as low as I'd want to go... any more & the top of the tire will be inside the lip, which to me will look to low...






heres my tire clearance to the spring bucket, bout 1/4"...



1



& here is how the rear tucks, the tire can go all the way up to the top of the well & contact the top without any sidewall contact at all, fully tucked... red circles are tire contact all the way up in the well...


1



1


even if you had coilovers you couldn't go much lower than this really... & again, the 1/2" extra I have from the shorter tire is a factor too...
 
had her out on the track yesterday... drove it a bit myself driving with instructor earlier in the day, then kierian who was my instructor took it out later in the day with me as a passenger, to really thrash it & push it to the limits... I told him to push it & not worry about anything, I really want to see what she can do


I can't believe what the fx can do on the track... he was out in an intermediate group but some pretty fast cars... on the straightaways he had to wave cars by, I mean there was no way to hold off some of the really fast cars, but through the infields & through the turns the fx definatley held her own, just seeing how the fx navigated the twisties was wild... there is no question the handling is very good at this point, everything just worked together really well... & yeah, this is on 22's...

1




1




1



1




1
 
sorry the pictures aren't so great, I just handed my 13 year old son my p&s & showed him how to take a shot, but forgot to even show him how to zoom, so these shots were taken from pretty far:tongue: he did manage to catch one shot that I think is pretty cool, a hard turn with the car pushing hard enough that the inside left front wheel is lifted off the ground:


1



1



& 2 more just for fun :smile:


1



1
 
Nice bro..!! Your drop setting def help the fx in the twisty corners bro... Congrats on the great job you have done to it...

We all the mods you have done, you should start putting a FX mods package together.., :wink:
 
glad to hear the fx performed.....now imagine how it'll be when the gt specs go on.....
 
yeah, style & function for sure :smile:


the main reason for the drop initially was for esthetic's, yeah, style I guess, but considering the performance enhancement & the fact that the fx feels more stable & even more comfortable with the rear air assist, it's just as much a functional mod too... def not just form over function on this mod... the performance alone was worth it, the look is a nice benefit too though no doubt


inspected everything after, all weld points & the upper arm relocation holes, everything OK. inspected the tires... the scrub patterns in particular to see how the alignment worked in this type of driving.



1



the front tires scrubbed hard on the outer 1/3rd of the tread... many of the track cars are running 3-4 degrees of negative camber in the front from the guys I spoke to at the track, in hard turns much or even most of the vehicle weight can be transfered to the outer front tire from both weight transfer & turning force resistance ... most street cars that are driven very hard will wear the outer parts of the front tires bad... this is pretty much normal, for aggressive driving a bit more front camber is a good idea, but on the street it's a compromise...

the rear, it wore evenly across the tread. this is a good thing. the rear worked very nice. with a 315 tire & wearing evenly across the patch rear traction is not a problem, the front of the fx was pushing a bit through the turns at the limits not surprisingly, quite a bit at & past the limits...

this is under steer, which is not ideal, ideal would be a slight amount of over steer if I had a choice. would been nice to see how well she would done with ~3 degrees negative camber in the front, maybe a stiffer rear anti sway bar to keep the front inside wheel more flat... get it closer to neutral at least, if I could get it to slight over steer would be perfect. this is a place where the staggered wheel set is actually a disadvantage, I mean yeah the setup can be compensated for to a certain extent but it would have also been a bit more naturally neutral with the same width contact patch front & rear assuming enough negative front camber to keep a flat contact patch in the turns, especially considering the near 50/50 weight distribution of the fx... this may be a good enough reason for a set of track wheels I guess but I'd really like to set it up for ideal on my street tires if I can... also curious to see how much better she'll feel with all the bracing....


now, for the fx to really do some damage out there, she needs more power... coming out of the turns & nailing the throttle you could tell what a real slug the fx was, had to let just about everyone pass on the straights, the fx labored to slowly & barely get up to 120mph in the long straight. if I had a lot more power may have not had to let too many pass.. I mean the weight is always going to be a disadvantage there, but with enough power I think the fx would be better able to really hang out there... I had a lot of fun out there, but I can see making it even better too...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top