Jumbo Boost

turbocad6 said:
...

another good read is a book by corky bell titled maximum boost.
...
Click to expand...

I saw this book at Barnes and Noble today. Almost picked it up but got distracted and then left.


Also, I agree with you (jumbo) about the single turbo idea. It seems simpler and cheaper for the same goal. Unless you go with a sequential TT setup, is there really that big a difference between a single and double kit? I know the double will probably spool a bit quicker but is that the only distinguishing factor?

---------- Post added at 09:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:32 PM ----------
jumbosrule said:
...

This calculation is how I got to the number I posted.
...
Click to expand...

That calculation involves an engine specific measurement. You said that you don't know whether the number you posted is right for an FX. If you measured your engine, you could calculate your Ve exactly and know it was right.
 
Last edited:
twins don't automatically mean faster spooling, although they can have a little advantage in earlier boost at the upper power level builds in many cases, a single can also spool quickly if that's how you spec the build & select a turbo with that goal in mind.

personally for a stock DE I think a single turbo can be a good choice. twin scroll also the way to go there with a single I'd say, & the haltech is def a great way to go over cheaper more limited options. the complications I see with a single turbo is catalytic converter issue maybe?, what do you do, use just one? the point between the turbo exhaust outlet & where it splits back to the rest of the exhaust system is going to be the concern with a single. your probably going to want to use a 3" downpipe & a single 3" cat?
 
turbocad6 said:
twins don't automatically mean faster spooling, although they can have a little advantage in earlier boost at the upper power level builds in many cases, a single can also spool quickly if that's how you spec the build & select a turbo with that goal in mind.
Click to expand...

I'm new to turbo lingo. What's the difference between "spooling quicker" and "having an advantage in earlier boost"?

turbocad6 said:
personally for a stock DE I think a single turbo can be a good choice. twin scroll also the way to go there with a single I'd say, & the haltech is def a great way to go over cheaper more limited options. the complications I see with a single turbo is catalytic converter issue maybe?, what do you do, use just one? the point between the turbo exhaust outlet & where it splits back to the rest of the exhaust system is going to be the concern with a single. your probably going to want to use a 3" downpipe & a single 3" cat?
Click to expand...

Ahhhh, good call. I didn't think about the y-pipe and cats. With one cat would you have issues with the other set of O2 sensors?
 
no difference, there one & the same, but I can see how my using both terms in that sentence can make it seem like there not :shy:

a single turbo can save like 2k in turbo, waste gate & intercooler... I've considered it, but with the dual tb's I like the symmetry of the duals & the shorter distance between the heads & turbo's, & twin turbo just sounds so cool :tongue:
 
Update! Went back to JTran yesterday to sit down and talk about the set-up. Oh yeah and he, "threw in" a dyno tune, no charge. Got an extra 24whp to the wheels. Think he was trying to buy my loyalty? It's workinnnnnnn awww yeah, it's workinnnn.

So I like the fact that what he offered up as a starting point was out of the box in terms of anything I had envisioned yet. I was going for a value build here - looking for ways to spend less money than I would on a 350Z kit. The shop suggested the turbo will most likely be mounted lower in the engine bay, for ease of installation and shorter runs. Not as showy, but the price would reflect that.

To answer your concern about the cats - he suggested we custom Y the cats together (starting with 3" downpipe) - using both O2 sensors like stock. Every connection on the hot side will use V-band clamps. Cold side will be silicone couplers.

Also suggested controlling noise by piping the BOV outlet into the exhaust. This idea was from his experience with the supercharged FX he did. He thinks the BOV would be too loud for my build philosophy - it crosses the luxury line I'm trying to maintain. The price he quoted is inside my limit, meaning I can do this as soon as the details are ironed out.

These are starting points in terms of ideas for the build, but I'm posting them to get some opinions. I can tweak this up until he/we start buying parts.

Did I mention the dyno tune is freakin awesome???
 
Last edited:
Good Luck man! Thats sick he gave you a free dyno tune deff a nice savings for you, and i agree you dont want it to be too loud since your theme all along has been to keep it luxury! I dont think its such a bad thing the the turbo is somewhat hidden. Once again good luck!
 
I don't get how anyone can install a haltech WITHOUT tuning it... I mean this is not like a Osiris or something that already comes with a bunch of base maps already, or a pre assembled kit with a base tune already installed like the jwtt or say an HKS SC, so to me it would HAVE to be set up properly & at least partially tuned upon install no matter what. what is the alternative? give you back the car without dialing the haltech? how could that work? pick the car up with a tow truck? drive it out & blow it up? I'm not sure how this could be installed without at least a basic tune, it's part of installing the damn thing really :sad:

the haltech is very cool to tune though, it is almost self tuning, you can just set up a map with desired target A/F & it will self tune to those parameters within reason, assuming everything else is set right like injector size, motor size & approx VE etc, this really has to be done for the thing to even be usable... I'd love to hear what the game plan would be if they weren't "including" a tune on a piece like this really...
 
Uhhhh... he got a "UpRev aka Osiris" tune (kinda like technosquare's) thrown in for FREE out of good jesture. The Haltech goes in when he goes turbo so no haltech yet.
 
Last edited:
So in talking with a third shop in town, they recommended that I stay with the stock ECU! Didn't know that was an option, but here's the "pitch" I received from them.

"I see that you'd prefer to use the Haltech for EMS. The Haltech is a great system and i've used it on many applications, but for your situation, its not really nessisary. We can retune the stock computer to meet your power goals with = reliability, but at much less of a cost and fewer compatibility issues with running the parallel ECU setup. Also you'll retain all the stock drivability and even passing inspections legally is possible View attachment 200163 . If you really want to run the Haltech, I have no problems setting up and tuning it, but honestly for your setup its not worth the extra money unless you just want to have it. Not only that, but you'll have to use the Uprev software to disable a bunch of stuff to run the Haltech, so you'll be paying for the Uprev license plus the cost of the Haltech, when you can just tune the car with Uprev and have it drive like stock with more power on tap...Yes I've tuned a couple FI 350Zs on Uprev. Basically the factory MAF is good to about 380-400HP worth of airflow max, Uprev sells what they call a PMAS which is a modified mass air meter that's rated up to 1000HP.. And Uprev give the tuner the ability to rescale for any size injectors. Its kinda a pain to tune, but once its dialed in the car will run basically as stock as your larger injectors will allow. In most cases still retaining everything needed to pass emissions. I'm not sure why they didn't offer you this solution. The Haltech is much easier to use from a tuning standpoint, but from a cost standpoint as well as quality of driveability and the ability to pass emissions legally, the Uprev is worth the extra effort on the tuning side. We can do it either way you like, its up to you".

Thoughts?
 
jumbosrule said:
So in talking with a third shop in town, they recommended that I stay with the stock ECU! Didn't know that was an option, but here's the "pitch" I received from them.

"I see that you'd prefer to use the Haltech for EMS. .... We can do it either way you like, its up to you".

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

Send this to JTran and see what he thinks. Maybe they'll start a reverse bidding war for your patronage...?
 
to do the haltech you can have the stock ecu flashed by technosquare for what's called a tuner flash, think it's in the $300 range I believe, & this will give you everything you need without an uprev flash to the ecu. the haltech is more expensive initially, but consider that it has built in boost control that may approach 4-500 for equivalent control electronically, & also consider that it has built in ability to control alcohol injection which would also save you about as much as your saving for the boost control, & also consider that it includes awesome data logging ability which can go a long way toward getting a great tune, all this added up can kind of soften the blow of the initial sticker shock.

the haltech is better than the stock ecu option for a lot of reasons, but that don't mean that the stock ecu is a horrible idea either really... just weigh all the add'l costs that the haltech can save by having all control in one interface & by one unit that is boost aware & the data logging abilities & the gap does narrow a bit... in the end you should probably go with the tuner you feel most confident with & go with what he feels is the best option... opinions can vary & there is more than one way to do something like this for sure... there is no right & wrong, just different opinions on what's better & what's good enough...

also consider that the haltech is wide band compatible & boost aware meaning maps can be built depending on boost levels, the haltech will offer more precise tunabilty for a FI setup in my opinion. inspection & legality issues I'm surprised that he even used this as one reason because the same thing would be doable with the haltech anyway... the haltech retains the stock ecu & works with it, & a good tuner can take advantage of the stock ecu maps in the region they apply to even with a haltech...

---------- Post added at 02:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:08 PM ----------

also, just to also point out for consideration, in using the haltech you really should also use there external map sensor which is just under 100 I believe, & then you really should add there dual wide band add on which is ~$400 I believe... you will def want a wide band anyway, but the benefit of the haltech dual WB is that #1 it can be used for more precise closed loop operation & most importantly, it's data can also be logged along with every other perameter... don't dismiss data logging ability. that can help smooth out any anomalies you may discover in drivability after the tune, where without data logging your tuner would then have to recreate the condition you speak of & try to see it to react with tune compensation. dyno tuning can only do so much for drivabilty issues
 
you didnt tell him you already had an uprev tune did you lol. That is what im using. Both the uprev and the haltech together. But like the above said, just go with ur tuner's recommendation.

Edit: Forgot to mention the uprev tune will be good to about 400-425. Anything above that is a big no no. Where you not planning on upping the boost down the line when you get tired of 400hp? The $hit gets addicting.
 
Last edited:
Chinke82 said:
you didnt tell him you already had an uprev tune did you lol. That is what im using. Both the uprev and the haltech together. But like the above said, just go with ur tuner's recommendation.

Edit: Forgot to mention the uprev tune will be good to about 400-425. Anything above that is a big no no. Where you not planning on upping the boost down the line when you get tired of 400hp? The $hit gets addicting.
Click to expand...

No - didn't mention the tune. Even though the tune is good to the 400whp range, I would still have to Uprev tune again after the turbo install, correct?

I don't plan on going above 400whp. I don't want to build the engine - stock internals only. Getting addicted already happened. That's why I plan to finish out my FX build and then start on a project car - one that is cheaper so I can be more aggressive with my goals. In fact, I was thinking I would buy a beater for my daily while the FX is in the shop. Then once the FX is done, all my mods will be on the beater and the FX is again my daily. But I'm getting ahead of myself...
 
jumbosrule said:
No - didn't mention the tune. Even though the tune is good to the 400whp range, I would still have to Uprev tune again after the turbo install, correct?

I don't plan on going above 400whp. I don't want to build the engine - stock internals only. Getting addicted already happened. That's why I plan to finish out my FX build and then start on a project car - one that is cheaper so I can be more aggressive with my goals. In fact, I was thinking I would buy a beater for my daily while the FX is in the shop. Then once the FX is done, all my mods will be on the beater and the FX is again my daily. But I'm getting ahead of myself...
Click to expand...

I was going to do the same....a nice JDM vehicle....240sx range
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top