Vibrations with spacers?

turbocad6 said:
there are 3 possible spacer designs, 1st are universal type, should never use them, we need hub centric spacers, universal spacers are sure to result in off centered wheels & vibrations & worse, possible but not really an option

the 2 options that are good are both going to be hub centric design, either straight bolt ons or ones that require longer replacement wheel studs. H&R's or ichibas are def the way to go for either of these types, stay away from imitation unknown quality crap out there

straight bolt ons of 20mm or more will fit & work with the stock wheels & are a decent option if your planning on changing wheels periodically, like winter stockers with spacers, but then custom summer 22's without spacers for summer use. the drawbacks to the straight bolt ons are that technically they are not as strong. you bolt the spacer on the orig studs w supplied short lug nuts & then the spacer itself has 5 new studs that project off of it & that's how the wheel mounts... the wheel is bolted on completely by the spacer which is aluminum, where in a conventional setup the wheel is bolted directly through the steel hub

the best way is the type of spacer that requires replacing the studs. they are more work to install & the drawback to them is you can have a problem trying to run a wheel without the spacers afterwards because the wheel studs will be longer, too long in many cases. not an issue though if your only running one set of wheels, or more of course even, as long as they can all acomidate the spacer too. the benifit of this design is it uses just 5 replacement studs for each wheel & they are installed directly through the steel hub, meaning a stronger wheel mount than the bolt on design.

bolt on's should be strong enough for casual use really, but I'd trust the replacement stud design personally much more & is def the prefered way to go, especially if you push your fx hard.

balancing & vibration issues come down to one thing only really with spacers, I mean all spacers are going to start out with a pefectly square block, so theres no way that the wheel will wobble or ocillate in/out or anything out of perfect alignment with the hub, so that's not an issue, the wheel will remain square & true to the hub even with spacers.

the only issue spacers have that cause all the vibration & wobbling is determined by how acuratley the spacer fits to the hub & then how acuratley the wheel fits to the spacer. we can assume that the spacers are lathe turned so they will be machined perfectly centered, BUT the problem comes when they are anything less than a tight press fit. many spacers slide on the hub but with a very slight amount of play. then, to compound this, the hub may fit to the wheel bore slightly loose too. in the end when you mount the wheel, if the hub-spacer has 8 thousanths excess clearance, & then the spacer-wheel fit has another 4 thousanths clearance, in the end the wheel will hang down 12 thousanths off perfectly centered when installed, then it is tightened in this slightly off centered location, bam, vibrations, percieved wobbling, all kinds of issues depending on how off these tolerances are. numbers used are for illustration perpose only & it may not be quite that much, never masured this actual tolerance differences

I have done one fx that had vibrations afterwards for this very reason. I solved the problem completely by removing the spacer & wrapping one thin layer of vinyl electrical tape at the hub surface, making the spacer a tight fit to the hub, centering problem solved there, the, same single vinyl tape layer to the spacer-wheel mating too, now, wheel goes on tight & centered, just like stock... ever notice you usually have to wiggle & pry the wheel off the hub when stock? it needs this tight fit to center perfectly, sloppy spacer fit is the culprit in most spacer troubles
Click to expand...

tc6, thx for that great post, very educational.
 
turbocad6 said:
if you do the tape wrap, cut the edge of the tape square with a razor, non stretched tape application & don't overlap the ends, just cut the other end square with a razor too & butt the joint, if you overlap or do a sloppy job then you'll defeat the purpose really...
Click to expand...


Turbo

Where can I pick this tape up at? Went to a few places; autozone, advanced...no go. Thanks
 
turbocad6 said:
regular black vinyl electrical tape??? should be able to get it just about anywhere... home depot for sure, almost any hardware store..
Click to expand...

Turbo

During our last meet we did this, but Im getting considerably more steering wheel shake around 60 mph. Any possible ideas. Do I need to be rebalanced? Any help would be great. Thanks.
 
well the idea of the electrical tape is to provide a uniform shim really, if you assume that the spacer is machined correctly & that the hub is mahined correctly, then the only discrepancy should be the slight wiggle room as they fit togeather. with the weight of the wheel on the spacer it will be off center by the slight amount of play there is. the tape should evenly distribute the gap between above & below the hub, centering the hub till the lugs are tightened.

if the tape deforms or bunches up or is allowed to affect the flat metal to metal contact of the back of the wheel to the flat surface of the hub then it is not right, the tape should be perfectly smooth, complete circle end butted with no gap, & the spacer should be slid over in a way to not shift the tape, it should fit snug to be good, but not so tight you gotta force it on & deform the tape.

the tape is applied, then the edge is razor cut at the edge of the flat face... next time I do this I'll take pictures, I guess if you just put tape on there the wrong way it's not gonna help & might make it worse.... the tape should only be on the inner/outer circumference face & no where else... it needs to be precise to do anything good...
 
turbocad6 said:
well the idea of the electrical tape is to provide a uniform shim really, if you assume that the spacer is machined correctly & that the hub is mahined correctly, then the only discrepancy should be the slight wiggle room as they fit togeather. with the weight of the wheel on the spacer it will be off center by the slight amount of play there is. the tape should evenly distribute the gap between above & below the hub, centering the hub till the lugs are tightened.

if the tape deforms or bunches up or is allowed to affect the flat metal to metal contact of the back of the wheel to the flat surface of the hub then it is not right, the tape should be perfectly smooth, complete circle end butted with no gap, & the spacer should be slid over in a way to not shift the tape, it should fit snug to be good, but not so tight you gotta force it on & deform the tape.

the tape is applied, then the edge is razor cut at the edge of the flat face... next time I do this I'll take pictures, I guess if you just put tape on there the wrong way it's not gonna help & might make it worse.... the tape should only be on the inner/outer circumference face & no where else... it needs to be precise to do anything good...
Click to expand...

Thanks John

I just removed it and torqued the wheels down, feels good, will be able to test it out fully tomorrow. Since the set up is new, it could have been other things like lugs backing out, etc. Thanks for your help.

Ton
 
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