Hi All- new to the forum here. I tried searching on this, but couldnt find a direct answer. Has anyone gone FI on an AWD FX? I am wondering if the transfer case will hold up ok on 500 whp. I would be replacing the entire transmission with either GTM or Level 10, but wasnt sure about the transfer case. I called Level 10 and they told me that the weak point on these cars is the transmission, not the transfer case. Any thoughts? Thanks for the help!
Twin Turbo FX and AWD?
- Thread starter kwlax65a
- Start date
Koso Kustomz
Member
- Location
- Idaho
I have seen a couple differnt guys do superchargers. It can be done
Koso Kustomz
Member
- Location
- Idaho
Its all money 
+1111111111Its all money
- Location
- brooklyn, ny
the weakest link is obviously the tranny, building that up should hopefully get you to the point of the tranny being able to live at 500hp. now past the tranny and assuming you get that built the next weekest links are going to be transfer case and axles, particularly the front drive and axles which is weaker than the rear drive components. assuming an all out hard launch at 50/50 front/rear and assuming good traction, I think there is a pretty good chance that the front axles may not be able to handle this repeatedly with reliabilty... truth is that these components are going to be the kind of thing that if/when you do reach there limits and break you would then be at the point of deciding weather to replace the damaged component(s) and go easier or at that point try to source custom beefier parts... that may be the kind of thing that falls into the category of crossing that bridge if/when you come to it.
as far as the transfer case itself, really hard to say for sure because I haven't seen any really high HP awd cars with this transfer case setup... from my research I believe the transfer case itself will stand up to the power, where I get a bit skeptical is the transfer case's internal clutch that transfers the power to the front on demand. in the past with nissans high power AWD cars, the only one would be the older skylines really, they did of course only offer them with manual stick shift trannies because they are much stronger than nissans automatics, but as far as the transfer case goes, the high powered skylines all used a hydraulic transfer coupler and a hydraulic pump mounted in the rear of the car... so the actual engagement of the front drive was engaged and disengaged with a hydraulic coupler that when fully locked was under ~1,600psi... it was strong enough to handle 1,000hp and better, BUT the main difference between those GTR transfer cases and ours is that ours is not hydraulic at all, ours is electromechanical... our front drive distribution is controlled with an electro magnetic clutch similar to how an AC compressor engages... now nissan went with this setup because it is cheaper and easier, less components and complicated hydraulics but is more than adequate for the power levels targeted, but I'm afraid that under 500hp this electromechanical clutch may not be able to really hold... if it starts slipping then it may eventually distroy itself and you will loose front engagement and the transfer case will no longer transfer power to the fronts at all, essentially burning out the front engagement and rendering the tranfer case no good at that point...
it's hard to tell if the magic number of the transfer cases power handling ability is 400, 500, 600 or more, but realize that the electromechanical clutch will have a much lower threshold than the older GTRs hydraulic setup for sure. unfortunately the only real way to know the limit is to pass this threshold, blow it up, then you'll know it's limitations... it's easier to know by seeing others who have blown there stuff up, that is how we all know the limitations of the tranny because we have a lot of data from other G's and Z's, but once your in AWD teritory your not going to find anywhere near as much data, there are a few FI awd cars out there but the most I've seen is in and around the 400 hp range... also you have to factor in the aditional weight of the FX over the smaller cars and you can see that the FX threashold will be less than the cars because of the increased load of additional vehicle weight, especially when your talking static load of a launch from a standstill. the only way to insure that the tranny and transfer case is no longer an issue would be to swap to a real R33-R34 GTR tranny setup, not practical for most and far from easy, it would probably cost you a small fortune assuming you could find anyone to even pull it off... they were only available to the japanese domestic market and a few other countries like the UK, and it's far from a bolt in affair, much custom work including having to build a custom bell housing as it will not even bolt up to any modern nissan engine. add to that the hydraulics and control necissary and all the other one-off custom stuff necissary and you can see that this is not practical for most to even consider I think.
---------- Post added at 01:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:23 PM ----------
also to add, I think this is why you do not see any big number AWD cars, with AWD once you start trying to go much beyond the 400hp mark your increasing it from a relatively straight foward job to a much much bigger and much more expensive project, especially since there really is nothing available for these. the sane thing to do is limit yourself to the 400-450 range, much beyond that will increase the costs and scope of the project to where it can get really crazy. there isn't much point to building a 500hp+ motor that's going to grenade the drivetrain every time you try to launch it... this is why you really arent going to see many venture into a suicidal project of trying to make much more power because it's only as good as the amount of power the drivetrain can handle... anyone looking for big power is going to naturally gravitate towards the RWD platform for these reasons...
as far as the transfer case itself, really hard to say for sure because I haven't seen any really high HP awd cars with this transfer case setup... from my research I believe the transfer case itself will stand up to the power, where I get a bit skeptical is the transfer case's internal clutch that transfers the power to the front on demand. in the past with nissans high power AWD cars, the only one would be the older skylines really, they did of course only offer them with manual stick shift trannies because they are much stronger than nissans automatics, but as far as the transfer case goes, the high powered skylines all used a hydraulic transfer coupler and a hydraulic pump mounted in the rear of the car... so the actual engagement of the front drive was engaged and disengaged with a hydraulic coupler that when fully locked was under ~1,600psi... it was strong enough to handle 1,000hp and better, BUT the main difference between those GTR transfer cases and ours is that ours is not hydraulic at all, ours is electromechanical... our front drive distribution is controlled with an electro magnetic clutch similar to how an AC compressor engages... now nissan went with this setup because it is cheaper and easier, less components and complicated hydraulics but is more than adequate for the power levels targeted, but I'm afraid that under 500hp this electromechanical clutch may not be able to really hold... if it starts slipping then it may eventually distroy itself and you will loose front engagement and the transfer case will no longer transfer power to the fronts at all, essentially burning out the front engagement and rendering the tranfer case no good at that point...
it's hard to tell if the magic number of the transfer cases power handling ability is 400, 500, 600 or more, but realize that the electromechanical clutch will have a much lower threshold than the older GTRs hydraulic setup for sure. unfortunately the only real way to know the limit is to pass this threshold, blow it up, then you'll know it's limitations... it's easier to know by seeing others who have blown there stuff up, that is how we all know the limitations of the tranny because we have a lot of data from other G's and Z's, but once your in AWD teritory your not going to find anywhere near as much data, there are a few FI awd cars out there but the most I've seen is in and around the 400 hp range... also you have to factor in the aditional weight of the FX over the smaller cars and you can see that the FX threashold will be less than the cars because of the increased load of additional vehicle weight, especially when your talking static load of a launch from a standstill. the only way to insure that the tranny and transfer case is no longer an issue would be to swap to a real R33-R34 GTR tranny setup, not practical for most and far from easy, it would probably cost you a small fortune assuming you could find anyone to even pull it off... they were only available to the japanese domestic market and a few other countries like the UK, and it's far from a bolt in affair, much custom work including having to build a custom bell housing as it will not even bolt up to any modern nissan engine. add to that the hydraulics and control necissary and all the other one-off custom stuff necissary and you can see that this is not practical for most to even consider I think.
---------- Post added at 01:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:23 PM ----------
also to add, I think this is why you do not see any big number AWD cars, with AWD once you start trying to go much beyond the 400hp mark your increasing it from a relatively straight foward job to a much much bigger and much more expensive project, especially since there really is nothing available for these. the sane thing to do is limit yourself to the 400-450 range, much beyond that will increase the costs and scope of the project to where it can get really crazy. there isn't much point to building a 500hp+ motor that's going to grenade the drivetrain every time you try to launch it... this is why you really arent going to see many venture into a suicidal project of trying to make much more power because it's only as good as the amount of power the drivetrain can handle... anyone looking for big power is going to naturally gravitate towards the RWD platform for these reasons...
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- Location
- Miami
- Car
- 2004 Infiniti FX35 Supercharged
Wow John, good write up, as always:top:
Would it not make sense on an AWD vehicle to electronically switch off the electromechanical clutch? That way for hard launches you're RWD, and for "normal" (if that's possible in a FI SUV! Perhaps limited power to a certain percent) you'd have the traction necessary for slippery conditions.....which is why most of us got AWD I would imagine.....
Steve
Steve
- Location
- brooklyn, ny
to a certain extent yes, but then your really not taking advantage of all the benefits of building an AWD in the first place... which is traction, and your suffering from the drawbacks which are all the additional weight and drag of the AWD system. when you have 500hp EVERYTHING is slippery
da mayor
Member
- Location
- Long Island, New York
Vinny Ten Racing in Long ISland built a FX35 twin turbo with the JWT kit on it... that worked out pretty well with the tranny cooler/valve body upgrade. this install goes back to 2007
- Location
- brooklyn, ny
yeah, think I've seen that one too but that would probably be in the little over 400hp range. do you know how much power it was making? to do 500 and better would take a built motor too really... nice to see you back in an fx kenny
da mayor
Member
- Location
- Long Island, New York
yeah thanks turbocad i miss the convenience of having a crossover... i never let the lady drive the M so i had to get some more practical than her g37 coupe that can't fit her parents in.
that FX35 i think was detuned down to just over 400WHP.... just for more reliability and less stress to the tranny.... unfortunately these auto's can only take so much.
that FX35 i think was detuned down to just over 400WHP.... just for more reliability and less stress to the tranny.... unfortunately these auto's can only take so much.