Thinking about tracking the FX...
- Thread starter Lerry@ARKperformance
- Start date
You gained the slight advantage because of the all wheel steering. Imagine if you were on coils and had a full set of GTSPEC bracing. You would be passing them. :ninja:
That all wheel steering isn't much if its anything like the old. He passed them up because he could push his to the limit compared to the z and m3 didn't or didn't know how. He was the better driver.
- Car
- 2003 FX35T
- Name
- Brad
I'm all for tracking the FX but I think there is quite a bit of optimism about what the performance parts will do for you on a track. For daily driving I agree that the braces make the ride feel more solid and I know with a lot of time and attention you can dial in the suspension like Turbocad did. Anything else may improve the feel/stability of the car but IMO it wont improve lap times.
If you are serious about tracking, I really think the only thing you should be spending money on is wheels/tires. The two most popular tires on the track in my experience are the R888 and the Dunlop Star Specs. Those will do more for FX understeer than any suspension mod. Lighter wheels would help acceleration - the stock 20" rims are 38 lbs each.
If you have a RWD FX35 (03-08) it did not come with a rear sway bar. Definitely add that. If you are AWD or an FX45, then you already have the rear sway.
Tires are not glamorous but are by far the best performance modification for any track.
If you are serious about tracking, I really think the only thing you should be spending money on is wheels/tires. The two most popular tires on the track in my experience are the R888 and the Dunlop Star Specs. Those will do more for FX understeer than any suspension mod. Lighter wheels would help acceleration - the stock 20" rims are 38 lbs each.
If you have a RWD FX35 (03-08) it did not come with a rear sway bar. Definitely add that. If you are AWD or an FX45, then you already have the rear sway.
Tires are not glamorous but are by far the best performance modification for any track.
Here are a few posts from the Org on a recent track day at Watkins Glen in a FX50s. Seems like it did AMAZINGLY well.
http://www.infinitifx.org/viewtopic.php?p=289209#p289209
http://www.infinitifx.org/viewtopic.php?p=289209#p289209
Hey..don't let them laugh at you. Buddy of mine started his track career in a 600hp/600tq pickup truck! He actually ended up buying a 350Z to save money as the truck ate tires, brake pads, brake rotors...every weekend (it was a 5000 lb truck...so not surprising). But he terrorized everyone out there and got the respect. Just learn your car and you'll get there.
My suggestion to you is to visit www.ctbrakes.com (Carbotech Brakes) and pick yourself up a set of XP8 front and rear pads.....flush your brake fluid and replace it with Motul RBF600.....then go learn and have fun. Even though it's an SUV, a new driver probably won't get the most out of the thing anyway...so worry more about you and less about the vehicle.
But on to the subject of understeer and oversteer:
Since the platform is similar, I can tell you my experiences with my 350Z. There are a couple of easy things you can do to work on understeer. Run a square tire setup. Running a wider rear tire than the front promotes understeer. I know my Z actually began to oversteer a little when I went to a square setup. Tire pressures: By changing your tire pressures you can effect understeer and oversteer. This is a fairly fine adjustment and ought to be used in conjunction with something else if you want to really effect things. Sway bars: By tightening up the rear sway bar, you can reduce understeer by promoting oversteer. Too much and you'll be spin happy though (been there). Other things that effect this are spring rates, damper settings and camber settings.
A little bit of driver technique can effect this too: On track the name of the game is weight transfer. You have to keep this under control or you'll have an agricultural experience. However, this can be used your advantage. Tapping your brakes will transfer weight from the rear tires to the front tires. This will allow the back end to come around for you. This is something of an advanced technique, so I wouldn't recommend it for a new track driver. There's also the throttle oversteer technique...but you have to have a good amount of power for that (think drifters).
My suggestion to you is to visit www.ctbrakes.com (Carbotech Brakes) and pick yourself up a set of XP8 front and rear pads.....flush your brake fluid and replace it with Motul RBF600.....then go learn and have fun. Even though it's an SUV, a new driver probably won't get the most out of the thing anyway...so worry more about you and less about the vehicle.
But on to the subject of understeer and oversteer:
Since the platform is similar, I can tell you my experiences with my 350Z. There are a couple of easy things you can do to work on understeer. Run a square tire setup. Running a wider rear tire than the front promotes understeer. I know my Z actually began to oversteer a little when I went to a square setup. Tire pressures: By changing your tire pressures you can effect understeer and oversteer. This is a fairly fine adjustment and ought to be used in conjunction with something else if you want to really effect things. Sway bars: By tightening up the rear sway bar, you can reduce understeer by promoting oversteer. Too much and you'll be spin happy though (been there). Other things that effect this are spring rates, damper settings and camber settings.
A little bit of driver technique can effect this too: On track the name of the game is weight transfer. You have to keep this under control or you'll have an agricultural experience. However, this can be used your advantage. Tapping your brakes will transfer weight from the rear tires to the front tires. This will allow the back end to come around for you. This is something of an advanced technique, so I wouldn't recommend it for a new track driver. There's also the throttle oversteer technique...but you have to have a good amount of power for that (think drifters).
I agree that a square setup is better for track than staggered in our case, staggered will only help on high powered rwd cars mostly, and if you could stiffen the rear sway bar that would def help but since you can't do anything like this then next best is to stiffen the rear spring rate and dampening...
like sisko says, promoting over steer is the key to reducing under steer, that's what I meant when I said to try to loosen up the ass of the fx
tires are def huge, but adding or taking away traction all around isn't going to change much of the over steer/under steer characterisics... to really have the tires make a big effect you would want to just change them individually, IE: front OR rear... for example, changing the rear to narrower (square setup) or putting better traction tires on the front only... your looking to change the relationship of front VS rear to change the under steer/over steer characteristics, changing all 4 tires at the same time to 4 better tires isn't going to affect the balance which is what your ideally looking to do... get closer to a loose rear end and you'll be getting away from under steer, go too much and you'll be spinning out all over the place instead of plowing through all over the place... also keep in mind that for a beginner, under steer is much more predictable and manageable than over steer which can get you into trouble real quick, and lastly, of course alignment and tire pressure will also affect the balance to a certain extent but trying to use these to compensate for other problems can cause other problems too, this is more just fine tune tweeking after the fact
like sisko says, promoting over steer is the key to reducing under steer, that's what I meant when I said to try to loosen up the ass of the fx
tires are def huge, but adding or taking away traction all around isn't going to change much of the over steer/under steer characterisics... to really have the tires make a big effect you would want to just change them individually, IE: front OR rear... for example, changing the rear to narrower (square setup) or putting better traction tires on the front only... your looking to change the relationship of front VS rear to change the under steer/over steer characteristics, changing all 4 tires at the same time to 4 better tires isn't going to affect the balance which is what your ideally looking to do... get closer to a loose rear end and you'll be getting away from under steer, go too much and you'll be spinning out all over the place instead of plowing through all over the place... also keep in mind that for a beginner, under steer is much more predictable and manageable than over steer which can get you into trouble real quick, and lastly, of course alignment and tire pressure will also affect the balance to a certain extent but trying to use these to compensate for other problems can cause other problems too, this is more just fine tune tweeking after the fact
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Could you not run a 350Z/G35 rear sway bar on the FX? I don't know for sure, but the OEM rear sway might be stiffer than the FX....and those could probably be had for almost nothing as it's a really common upgrade on the Z and G. If the OE parts are the same....then you could run a Stillen, Hotchkis (which is what I run), or any number of other brands.
Just keep in mind that once things start changing, the effect becomes cumulative....so you have to start tweaking the setup to get where you need to be (which is ideally neutral).
Lerry@ARKperformance
Member
@Aiya: I have an AGV i'm thinking about using but my friend thinks it won't pass because motorcycle helmets are designed for one impact instead of multiple impacts
@sisko/turbocad: unfortunately I don't think the 370Z or G37 rear sway bars will work, the 2nd gens are very close to the newer 370s and g37s but the suspension is different enough in that we can't use the same coil over setup or suspension work either, if possible i'd like to try if anyone has it to give it a shot at least. after reading the posts i'm thinking about doing a set of smaller 20" enkei gtc01s with the stickiest possible tire. do you think i'll see a disadvantage running slightly diameter tires? basically keep the width the same but a smaller side wall
@sisko/turbocad: unfortunately I don't think the 370Z or G37 rear sway bars will work, the 2nd gens are very close to the newer 370s and g37s but the suspension is different enough in that we can't use the same coil over setup or suspension work either, if possible i'd like to try if anyone has it to give it a shot at least. after reading the posts i'm thinking about doing a set of smaller 20" enkei gtc01s with the stickiest possible tire. do you think i'll see a disadvantage running slightly diameter tires? basically keep the width the same but a smaller side wall
No harm in bringing it I guess. Chances are that they will have loaners available too...maybe.
Lerry@ARKperformance
Member
thats true, M helmets just withstand one hit and don't really have to be fire proof as much since you're not stuck inside a car..how much are like decent helmets, i don't think i need a light helmet inside a car
- Car
- 2007 FX35 RWD
I actually went to a motorcycle store and told them I just needed a helmet that met certain standards, didn't have to fit well, and asked if they had any thing at reduced price. I ended up getting one for about $50, because the stitching had torn a little on the back. I put some tape over it, and it's been fine since. Not like it gets used enough to affect it. I think I've had it at least 2-3 years now.
Lerry@ARKperformance
Member
wow $100 is very low, my AGV for the bike is well over $400! what the heck
these helmets are good when your just using them to meet requirements, and that they do... if I was driving a real fire breathing monster race car and thought I might go down in a huge flameball at 200mph then yeah, maybe I wouldn't trust just that cheapo helmet, but for the BS of just going around in a circle or even straight down the drag strip in an average street car then you know as well as I do that the ONLY reason you even need a helmet at all is as a formality and these are more than good enough
- Car
- 2007 FX35 RWD
Go on...