something I read on the org...interesting

Deecarp

Member
Location
Bay Area
Car
QX60 AWD
Name
Darryl
I read this on the org the other day and found this interesting, and some what true from riding my bike in early morning, I seem to be able to get more miles out of a tank, or it was just my mind is playing tricks on me. but I do understand the principle of how gas molecules do expand, and what vapor lock can do to riding a bike so this may make some since and truth. So give it a read ...might be worth it.

http://www.infinitifx.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=18789&p=207762&hilit=saving+money+at+the+pump#p207762
 
I read this on the org the other day and found this interesting, and some what true from riding my bike in early morning, I seem to be able to get more miles out of a tank, or it was just my mind is playing tricks on me. but I do understand the principle of how gas molecules do expand, and what vapor lock can do to riding a bike so this may make some since and truth. So give it a read ...might be worth it.

http://www.infinitifx.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=18789&p=207762&hilit=saving+money+at+the+pump#p207762

I agree with you Dee, I have done the same and it does work.
 
Yeah 6, I do see some difference in the morning with how dense gas can be when cold, less fumes also pumping in the morning compared to mid day. So it won't hurt to see how the ride is affected over the next few weeks with me filling up in the mornings
 
I don't know what you guys are paying for gasoline.... but here in California we are also paying higher, up to $3.50 per gallon. But my line of work is in petroleum for about 31 years now, so here are some tricks to get more of your money's worth for every gallon.

Here at the Kinder Morgan Pipeline where I work in San Jose, CA we deliver about 4 million gallons in a 24-hour period thru the pipeline. One day is diesel the next day is jet fuel, and gasoline, regular and premium grades. We have 34-storage tanks here with a total capacity of 16,800,000 gallons.

Only buy or fill up your car or truck in the early morning when the ground temperature is still cold. Remember that all service stations have their storage tanks buried below ground. The col der the ground the more dense the gasoline, when it gets warmer gasoline expands, so buying in the afternoon or in the evening....your gallon is not exactly a gallon. In the petroleum business, the specific gravity and the temperature of the gasoline, diesel and jet fuel, ethanol and other petroleum products plays an important role.

A 1-degree rise in temperature is a big deal for this business. But the service stations do not have temperature compensation at the pumps.

When you're filling up do not squeeze the trigger of the nozzle to a fast mode. If you look you will see that the trigger has three (3) stages: low, middle, and high. In slow mode you should be pumping on low speed, thereby minimizing the vapors that are created while you are pumping. All hoses at the pump have a vapor return. If you are pumping on the fast rate, some other liquid that goes to your tank becomes vapor. Those vapors are being sucked up and back into the underground storage tank so you're getting less worth for your money.

One of the most important tips is to fill up when your gas tank is HALF FULL or HALF EMPTY. The reason for this is, the more gas you have in your tank the less air occupying its empty space. Gasoline evaporates faster than you can imagine. Gasoline storage tanks have an internal floating roof. This roof serves as zero clearance between the gas and the atmosphere, so it minimizes the evaporation. Unlike service stations, here where I work, every truck that we load is temperature compensated so that every gallon is actually the exact amount.

Another reminder, if there is a gasoline truck pumping into the storage tanks when you stop to buy gas, DO NOT fill up--most likely the gasoline is being stirred up as the gas is being delivered, and you might pick up some of the dirt that normally settles on the bottom. Hope this will help you get the most value for your money.

DO SHARE THESE TIPS WITH OTHERS!

WHERE TO BUY USA GAS, THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT TO KNOW. READ ON

Gas rationing in the 80's worked even though we grumbled about it. It might even be good for us! The Saudis are boycotting American goods. We should return the favor. An interesting thought is to boycott their GAS. & amp; nbsp;

Every time you fill up the car, you can avoid putting more money into the coffers of Saudi Arabia. Just buy from gas companies that don't import their oil from the Saudis.

Nothing is more frustrating than the feeling that every time I fill-up the tank, I am sending my money to people who are trying to kill me, my family, and my friends.
&n bsp;
I thought it might be interesting for you to know which oil companies are the best to buy gas from and which major companies import Middle Eastern oil.

These companies import Middle Eastern oil:

Shell......... . .......... ....... 205,742,000 barrels
Chevron/Texaco......... 144,332,000 barrels
Exxon /Mobil............... 130,082,000 barrels
Marathon/Speedway... 117,740,000 barrels
Amoco............................62,231,000 barrels

< /SPAN>Citgo gas is from South America, from a Dictator who hates Americans. If you do the math at $30/barrel, these imports amount to over $18 BILLION! (oil is now $90 - $100 a barrel)

Here are some large companies that do not import Middle Eastern oil:

Sunoco..................0 barrels


Conoco..................0 barrels
Sinclair.................0 barrels
BP/Phillips............0 barrels
Hess.......................0 barrels
ARCO....................0 barrels

If you go to Sunoco.com, you will get a list of the station locations near you.

All of this information is available from the Department of Energy and each is required to state where they get their oil and how much they are importing.

But to have an impact, we need to reach literally millions of gas buyers. It's really simple to do.

Now, don't wimp out at this point.... keep reading and I'll explain how simple it is to reach millions of people!!

I'm sending this note to about thirty people. If each of you send it to at least ten more (30 x 10 = 300) ... and those 300 send it to at least ten more (300 x 10 = 3,000) and so on, by the time the message reaches the sixth generation of people, we will have reached over THREE MILLION consumers!!!!!!! If those three million get excited and pass this on to ten friends each, then 30 million people will have been contacted!

If it goes one level further, you guessed it.....THREE HUNDRED MILLION PEOPLE!!! < BR>
Again, all you have to do is send this to 10 people. How long would all that take?


Why use premium gas when regular will do?
By James R. Healey, USA TODAY
Marti Mayne once fueled her low-octane Subaru with high-octane gas. Not now. Premium-gas prices "went sky high, and now I just use low grade" to motor around Yarmouth, Maine, where she runs a marketing business.

Cost differences between regular and premium is as plain as, well, the sign at the station, like this one in Chicago.
By Scott Olson, Getty Images

When prices dropped earlier this year, she stuck with cheaper fuel because "I don't think that my car runs any differently on high, medium or lower grade."

She's right. Engines designed for regular fuel don't improve on premium and sometimes run worse. And today's engines designed for premium run fine on regular, too, their makers say, though power declines slightly. (Background: About Octane ratings)

But premium lovers are passionate. "I would simply curtail driving rather than switch grades," says Bill Teater of Mount Vernon, Ohio, who puts high-test in both his Cadillacs, though only one recommends it. He's sure both the DeVille and the Escalade run rough and lack pep on regular.

Prejudice and preference aside, engineers, scientists and the federal government say there's little need for premium.

When fuel's cheap, motorists are willing to pay 20 cents or so more for premium. But as gas prices sneak back up, the mental wrangle begins anew over whether it's OK to burn cheaper, regular-grade gas.

AS PRICES RISE, CONSUMERS
SHUN PREMIUM GAS
Average price of a gallon of premium gasoline:
1993 $1.30
1999 $1.36
2002 $1.58
20031 $1.80
Premium gas share of all gas sold:
1993 19.9%
1999 16.8%
2002 13.5%
2003 12.1%
Sources: Energy Information Administration, American Petroleum Institute






The answer almost always is yes.

"I personally use regular even though my owner's manual says you'll get better performance with premium," says Lewis Gibbs, consulting engineer and 45-year veteran at Chevron oil company. He's chairman of Technical Committee 7 on Fuels, part of the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) Fuels & Lubricants Council. Gibbs knows gas.

"My wife runs midgrade (89 octane) in her car, and it's a turbocharged engine" meant for 91-octane premium, he says.

Premium — gasoline having an octane rating 91 or higher — is just 12.1% of sales this year, down from 13.5% in 2002, when it was 22 cents a gallon cheaper, and well below the modern high of 20.3% in 1994, when it was 49 cents cheaper, according to industry and government data. Despite the allure of premium, once they abandon it, most motorists don't come back, the data suggest.

For every dime increase in the price, sales of premium gas drop 1%, Bob Johnson, general manager of gasoline and environmental services for the 7-Eleven chain, figures, based on data back to 1998.

The main advantage of premium-grade gas is that it allows automakers to advertise a few more horsepower by designing and tuning engines to take advantage of premium's anti-knock properties. But auto engineers generally agree that if you use regular in a premium engine, the power loss is so slight, most drivers can't tell.

"I go back and forth, and I'm hard-pressed to notice" whether there's regular or premium in the tank, says Jeff Jetter, principal chemist at Honda Research and Development Americas. He drives an Acura designed for premium.

Import brands, especially, use premium fuel to distinguish their upmarket models. Most Toyotas, for instance, are designed to run on regular or midgrade, while the automaker's Lexus luxury brand prefers premium. Same with Honda and its Acura luxury line.

"Generally, the more expensive the vehicle, the higher the expectation for performance and the more the customer is willing to pay for fuel," says Pete Haidos, head of product planning for Nissan in the USA.

Actually, the price debate is nearly worthless. At 20 cents more for premium, pumping 20 gallons of it instead of regular would cost $4 more. Annually, that's a difference of $171 for a vehicle that averages 14 miles per gallon — as some big sport-utility vehicles do — and is driven 12,000 miles a year.

Gasoline retailers and refiners like high-test because it's more profitable than regular-grade gas is. The retailer paid about 8 cents more for the premium you pay 20 cents more for — though that margin can swing wildly. Refiners make a few cents a gallon more on premium than on regular when they sell to wholesale distributors.

As long as it's clean

Profit is meaningless to the modern engine, which, regardless of what's specified in the owner's manual, hardly cares what you use — as long as it's clean.

Today's engines use highly evolved versions of a device called a knock sensor to adjust settings automatically for low-octane gas. And more engine control computers have adequate memory to allow separate sets of instructions for various octanes. The engine control computers keep pushing to maximize performance on whatever grade of fuel is used.

Extreme pressure inside the cylinders causes knock, which is the sound of the pistons literally rattling inside the cylinders. Too much too long can damage the engine. A little now and then won't.

The only modern engines that should really need premium are those with superchargers, which force-feed fuel into the cylinders. "You're driving along and just tramp the gas and the knock sensor cannot sense the knock fast enough in some cases," because the supercharger boosts pressure so fast, says Bob Furey, chemist and fuels specialist at General Motors.

Burning regular when the owner's manual specifies premium won't void the warranty, nor damage the engine, even the most finicky automakers say. "You're giving up perhaps just a little bit of performance that a customer wouldn't really even notice, it's so slight," says Furey.

Automakers say they don't test premium engines on regular to check the difference, but some auto engineers estimate that power declines roughly 5%.

"We can't guarantee the vehicle will perform as specified if other than premium fuel is used," says Mercedes-Benz spokeswoman Michelle Murad. All U.S. Mercedes engines specify premium.

All Porsche engines are designed for premium, too, but it's not available everywhere. "Our cars must be able to drive all over the world, and so we are able to run on regular," says Jakob Neusser, director of powertrain development at Porsche's research and development center in Weissach, Germany. "You don't have to feel that a mechanical problem or anything else will happen" using regular gas, even in the highest-performance, regular-production Porsches.

Premium, in fact, sometimes is worse fuel than regular. It resists knock because it's harder to ignite than lower-octane fuels. As a result, some engines won't start as quickly or run as smoothly on premium, notes Gibbs, the SAE fuel expert.

High-test does have a potential fuel economy benefit. It is slightly denser than lower-octane gas, meaning there's a little more energy in a gallon. But the small difference is hard to measure in real-world use, and that same density can contribute to undesirable buildup of waste products inside the engine.

No data show that engines designed strictly for regular run better or longer on premium.

The Federal Trade Commission, in a consumer notice, emphasizes: "(I)n most cases, using a higher-octane gasoline than your owner's manual recommends offers absolutely no benefit. It won't make your car perform better, go faster, get better mileage or run cleaner."

There is "no way of taking advantage of premium in a regular-grade car," says Furey.

"There is no gain. You're wasting money," insists Jim Blenkarn, in charge of powertrains at Nissan in the USA.

"No customer should ever be deluded into thinking there's any value in buying a higher grade of octane than we specify," says Toyota's Paul Williamsen, technical expert and trainer.

But premium retains a mystique.

Even Mayne, the sensible Subaru owner who has switched to regular, says she'll buy premium when her neighborhood station has a special price. "It's my perception that I might get better gas mileage or that it might be better for my engine," she says.

"I would stop driving rather than use a lower grade of gasoline," says Andrew Martschenko of Boston, who drives a 2003 Nissan Maxima. Nissan says premium is "recommended" for that engine — automaker code for regular is OK, but you'll only get the advertised power on premium.

If the price difference between regular and premium grew to $1, Martschenko says, "Then I might consider trading down" to regular.

Guilt plays a part

Some people feel almost guilty, as if they are abusing their cars, when they don't burn premium, says gasoline retailer Jay Ricker, president of Ricker Oil of Anderson, Ind., which operates 28 stations. "They go all the way down to 87 (octane), but maybe every fourth tank they put in the good stuff."

Sam Turner has seen the appeal, too. He's president of Favorite Markets of Dalton, Ga., which operates 139 outlets in three states.

He recalls visiting one of his stations during a price war with a nearby station, which had cut the price of premium to just 4 cents more than regular, instead of the usual 20-cent difference.

"A customer was waiting and asked me if I was going to match the guy across the street. I said, 'Yeah,' and he said, 'Good. For 4 cents, I'm gonna buy super.' "

heres the quote
 
Thanks for adding the quote Will, I thought about doing the same thing, but decide just to link it instead. I thought it was interesting. I'm not an expert in the harvesting oil/gasoline, but thought it was worth reading.
 
I Agree with you Brown, we all probably for the most part use both sites. some use one more then the other but bottom line it about how we luv that FX. so lets killet skillet, and just let go before the war of words gets out of hand. and if there nothing good to say just don't type. lol...
 
assuming that this stays consistent every time you fill up: 5000 to 5037 is only a .74% difference in the volume. proportionally, those 37 gallons equals just under 19 ounces for an entire tank (assuming 20 gallons) - or about 14.8% of a gallon. at an estimated 20 mpg, we're looking at an extra 2.96 miles per tank. at 15 mpg, it's 2.22 extra miles per tank.

this doesn't really have a point - other than occupying a couple minutes of my free time =)
 
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