On my mind (turbo's supercharger for sale)
- Thread starter fxlr8
- Start date
sweet!
I'm waiting to see how much you put down at the wheels with it stock and then f/i.
You mentioned rotrex superchargers before, I looked at some rotrex for my truck before. They have some at urdusa.com they specialize in toyota only but i'm sure they could sell you just the chargers, worth checking out their prices anyways.
I'm waiting to see how much you put down at the wheels with it stock and then f/i.
You mentioned rotrex superchargers before, I looked at some rotrex for my truck before. They have some at urdusa.com they specialize in toyota only but i'm sure they could sell you just the chargers, worth checking out their prices anyways.
before I actually bought this motor I was only willing to put a little research it, enough to know I wanted it, but since I bought & own it, then I did a whole bunch more researching & reading about these motors & the upgrade posibilities...
the HR & the HVR of the 37 with vvtl both share the same block
these motors are much stronger than the stock de. multiple 350Z guys are putting well over 500 to the wheels with twin turbo's on 91 octane & they have been dyno'd to +600whp without issue of the motor, there just not breaking them yet, theres even more in them past the 600whp mark. there bumping the rev limit up to 8,000 to give a little headroom for shifting at 7,500, these HR's are pretty hot... they got much of what a built motor would normally have, strong light weight internals, lighter high tech pistons, the heads flow 300cc's bone stock, make more power with less boost... guys are trading up there z's to get this motor over building there de's now, 07-08 Z's are available cheaper cause the 370z is out... too bad with the fx's the gap in price to the new fx is much higher than the Z's
this is a completely stock block dyno chart from gtm, with there stage one twin setup at 14psi...
I was not too hot for a tt setup with the de cause it just seemed like overkill for the de, twins can easily make way more power than the motor can ever handle, you need a built motor to really benifit from what it can provide, why I settled on the powerdyne as a good match to the DE, but these HR's are very very beefy, really nice match for a tt setup. gtm's tt setup is really nice... my biggest limiting factor would be tranny, have to turn it down to only 8 psi or so, 430-450 to the wheels will be very easy on this motor, past that gotta build the tranny, for now 430-450's gotta be the limit....
so now gotta choose between twin turbo off the shelf GTM setup or custom twin rotrex superchargers, benifits with both, but the gtm twin turbo setup may be the easiest way to go...
osris uprev has completely unlocked the HR ecu, to the point that they sell a pro tuner kit now that allows you to fully flash the ecu all by yourself completely or still send in logs & have them tune it for you. complete control over fuel, timing & even variable valve timing can be flashed, gtm is running there over 600whp stock HR's with just the osiris flash tuning, no piggy backs or stand alones. I was originally thinking of running the HR motor on the DE computer with the utec piggyback, but since getting this motor I've been considering more the idea of running it on the 07 G35x ecu. I was able to get the complete harness & ecu from this G35x too so this is possible & what I'll probably wind up trying to do, utec & utec tuner may be up for sale soon
yeah, stock internals... +600hp at 8k rpm sounds like it's strong enough to me... if I was going to build then may have been better off just sticking with the de, the HR was my "pre built out of the box" alternative...
check out GTM's thread on this motor, pretty bad ass:
http://my350z.com/forum/shop-builds...g-1-gtm-hr-ecu-flash-stock-block-testing.html
I may wind up installing NA first, just to iron out all the interface & adapting issues, weather I wind up running this dual TB with the stock g35x box or single TB with the DE box makes a big difference in what FI I wind up with, otherwise had it been very straight forward I'd probably want to do FI from the beginning, but no, this will probably involve the motor going in/out at least twice at this point... first to make sure I can get it to run as a g35x & then for FI, especially if I go with GTM's tt setup, motorscoming back out for that, maybe not so necissary if I go twin rotrex...
everything is different as far as accessories, I winded up going back & forth several times with the guy I got the drivetrain from & now I have everything G35x, motor, tranny, transfer case, front diff, starter, alt, ps pump, ac compressor, ecu & harnesses... once the swap takes place I may need to also source the g35x vdc module & maybe others, can't predict the CAN buss communications issues I could wind up with... I do know guys that could sniff the packets out along the buss & interpret them, but doing something about actually changing them could be another whole issue which I don't think I can do, even if I found a way the delay would still be an issue... most likely the protocols for communication will be compatible & the 03 boxes will communicate the same with the 07 boxes, if not may need to upgrade a few other boxes to 07 stuff, could be fun, don't want to loose my radar cruise...
at least once I iron out the pitfalls this may wind up becoming a popular swap, pretty cool to upgrade to a complete 5k mile drivetrain that includes the motor handles 600+ for around 4k...
honestly, had I known I was going to get this deep & this complete of a swap I would have probably just went with the 3.7 vvtl setup, but at least with the 3.5 worse case if all else fails at least I can still run it single TB on the DE box... going to vvtl later would require a head swap & harness/ecu swap too, so I'll probably not ever go vvtl in this car...
learning a bit about the swapability here to, for example the bell housing differences, the fact that the DE headers & cats can be used interchangable with the HR, but as an assembly, can't use DE manifolds or headers with HR cats & vice versa. so if I go SC I can keep my stillen headers on this motor no problem, just have to use the DE cat fitment too. I'm sure I'm going to learn a whole lot more about CAN buss comunications & stuff, no mater what I'll have to get the 03 stuff to communicate with the 07 stuff, only way to pull off this complete swap without that would be to keep my original tranny as the tranny box is inside the tranny...
so far I've been very lucky with everything I've tried to adapt early to later on my fx, from the body to the dash to the brakes, just hope this swap follows suit, can buss can be fun
check out GTM's thread on this motor, pretty bad ass:
http://my350z.com/forum/shop-builds...g-1-gtm-hr-ecu-flash-stock-block-testing.html
I may wind up installing NA first, just to iron out all the interface & adapting issues, weather I wind up running this dual TB with the stock g35x box or single TB with the DE box makes a big difference in what FI I wind up with, otherwise had it been very straight forward I'd probably want to do FI from the beginning, but no, this will probably involve the motor going in/out at least twice at this point... first to make sure I can get it to run as a g35x & then for FI, especially if I go with GTM's tt setup, motorscoming back out for that, maybe not so necissary if I go twin rotrex...
everything is different as far as accessories, I winded up going back & forth several times with the guy I got the drivetrain from & now I have everything G35x, motor, tranny, transfer case, front diff, starter, alt, ps pump, ac compressor, ecu & harnesses... once the swap takes place I may need to also source the g35x vdc module & maybe others, can't predict the CAN buss communications issues I could wind up with... I do know guys that could sniff the packets out along the buss & interpret them, but doing something about actually changing them could be another whole issue which I don't think I can do, even if I found a way the delay would still be an issue... most likely the protocols for communication will be compatible & the 03 boxes will communicate the same with the 07 boxes, if not may need to upgrade a few other boxes to 07 stuff, could be fun, don't want to loose my radar cruise...
at least once I iron out the pitfalls this may wind up becoming a popular swap, pretty cool to upgrade to a complete 5k mile drivetrain that includes the motor handles 600+ for around 4k...
honestly, had I known I was going to get this deep & this complete of a swap I would have probably just went with the 3.7 vvtl setup, but at least with the 3.5 worse case if all else fails at least I can still run it single TB on the DE box... going to vvtl later would require a head swap & harness/ecu swap too, so I'll probably not ever go vvtl in this car...
learning a bit about the swapability here to, for example the bell housing differences, the fact that the DE headers & cats can be used interchangable with the HR, but as an assembly, can't use DE manifolds or headers with HR cats & vice versa. so if I go SC I can keep my stillen headers on this motor no problem, just have to use the DE cat fitment too. I'm sure I'm going to learn a whole lot more about CAN buss comunications & stuff, no mater what I'll have to get the 03 stuff to communicate with the 07 stuff, only way to pull off this complete swap without that would be to keep my original tranny as the tranny box is inside the tranny...
so far I've been very lucky with everything I've tried to adapt early to later on my fx, from the body to the dash to the brakes, just hope this swap follows suit, can buss can be fun
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now he's going for a 06-08 + 09ish
Seen the engine in person.. Looked pretty clean with everything including the harness and what not.. Much like a crate engine.. I hope you don't have any major compatibility problems John so this becomes a great first mod for the first gen FX.something I found...
NYCshopper
01-31-2007, 06:26 PM
2007 Infiniti G35 Sedan Dyno Results...
from:
http://g35driver.com/forums/showthread.php?t=136869
Here you go guys!
The 2007 VQ HR dyno results!!!
Comparative dynos of the NON-REVUP AT and the REVUP MT have been included to illustrate the relative differences of the three engines.
As you can see in the plots below the 2007 HR engine completely stomps the prior generations in both peak power and in area under the curve by a very large margin.
I've seen both the prior engines with all the boltons can do similar numbers to eachother but the HR engine greatly exceeds what any amount of boltons can do to the other engines.
$10,000 in boltons on a REVUP engine couldn't do what a stock HR does.
Congratulations to Nissan for really stepping up to the plate and doing a great job on this latest engine. Let the modding begin
(FYI - Bigger Dyno Pics @ Link)
2004 AT Vs 2007 AT
&
2005 MT Vs 2007 AT
NYCshopper
01-31-2007, 06:26 PM
2007 Infiniti G35 Sedan Dyno Results...
from:
http://g35driver.com/forums/showthread.php?t=136869
Here you go guys!
The 2007 VQ HR dyno results!!!
Comparative dynos of the NON-REVUP AT and the REVUP MT have been included to illustrate the relative differences of the three engines.
As you can see in the plots below the 2007 HR engine completely stomps the prior generations in both peak power and in area under the curve by a very large margin.
I've seen both the prior engines with all the boltons can do similar numbers to eachother but the HR engine greatly exceeds what any amount of boltons can do to the other engines.
$10,000 in boltons on a REVUP engine couldn't do what a stock HR does.
Congratulations to Nissan for really stepping up to the plate and doing a great job on this latest engine. Let the modding begin
(FYI - Bigger Dyno Pics @ Link)
2004 AT Vs 2007 AT
&
2005 MT Vs 2007 AT
Last edited by a moderator:
Hey John,
How's the HR engine swap project going? Haven't seen any new exciting and innovative updates on this from you. I am looking forward to see how crazy your FX will be modded to!!!
How's the HR engine swap project going? Haven't seen any new exciting and innovative updates on this from you. I am looking forward to see how crazy your FX will be modded to!!!
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If turbo doesn't mind being spoken for, here's what I recall: last we heard he has the engine stuffed in the back of his closet and is waiting to finish a bunch of projects/commitments he made. His plan is to do the swap sometime in the winter and drive the turbocadminivan (which I don't doubt is just as sweet as can be) in the slush and snow.
cool. Your innovative work on FX always makes people look forward to. I did not meant to push you on this project (probably no one except you know how to do it anywayz). I apologize if I make you feel this way. Just want to see your innovation on pushing the FX to the limit. Thanks for sharing all the valueable info. :.smile:
well, fx is down, been driving my winter wheels past few weeks & will be driving it till my fx is resurrected from this surgery... haven't taken the fx apart yet, just getting the motor & tranny together & ready to install. I should have done a lot of the prep work in advance but I haven't even touched this thing until now.
also now starting to heavily research what's involved in this swap in more detail, up until now I haven't really got very deep & detailed with my research, just skimmed the surface & dove in by buying it, but trust me a swap like this takes a whole lot of R&D, with a whole lot of research before there can even be any developments at all.
first of all let me say that this is an extremely complicated swap, so much so that it has never been done before except for a few professional race teams with huge budgets & by sacrificing a few systems & some functionality along the way too. even factory Nissan techs are saying that it is a monumental task to consider even with full factory support
GTM initiated a swap like this & posted that they were doing it with pictures of the motor & everything, twin turbo's & all, but stopped posting about it shortly after & a year later has no further developments or even answers anyone about it anymore for whatever that's worth, maybe the customer ran out of funds? several have attempted it but bailed after hitting too many stumbling blocks, & there are more than a few guys out there with a whole bunch of parts & vehicles in pieces but nothing done & actually running yet as far as I've been able to find. of course right now I fall into the same category of having the parts & soon to be dissembled vehicle & a lot of hope
one guy from nissansport magazine did a swap like this is a race car & they worked with an ASE Master and Nissan Senior tech & they even had factory support & it was still a challenge, they still had check engine lights & some systems not functioning but being a race car they can deal with that. there are others who have cut up there harnesses & realized too late that there in way over there heads...
many enthusiasts have explored this option but no one has succeeded yet... after finding all the disappointing info out there about this, & the lack of much real helpful information in general it looks to be a real challenge, the pro's that have gained knowledge by doing stuff like this are not the type that want to even share information, it's no wonder many are also pretty scared off by the thought of this, I think that's what I like about the thought of doing this now, & I know it will be a nice feeling of accomplishment when I do pull this off, I think I like the challenge, I mean how fun would life be without challenges? this should be fun to pull off I think, I've never been the one to just go for the easy way out
at this point I'm learning all the in's & outs of the Nissan control systems, learning about all the differences between the 03 systems & the newer controls too & as much as I can about how everything really works in detail. the electronics here are pretty wild & amazing & at the same time pretty complicated. I have a few different ways I can go with trying to get this to work but my preferred way & my primary focus & goal so far is on trying to get it to run on the HR ecu, keeping all systems intact & have it run just like it thinks it's still in a g35x & have all systems working like factory. I don't know for sure that I can do this 100% though. one big factor is I don't have & can't get my own consult III, & there are so many things that only a consult III can do in these systems... this is not something I can just buy at all, & no matter what I'm going to have to find at least someone with access to a consult III, but I will have limited availability to it at best.
usually I don't have a plan b, because a plan b is just an indication that your considering you may fail at your main plan & I'd rather go in just not even thinking about not being able to do it, but on something this involved & this complicated & the potential of just getting to some serious roadblocks & considering the stakes involved are my driving my fx ever again I need at least a plan b here, & even have a c & d if need be... I may not know exactly how I'm going to pull this off but I do know that one way or another I will wind up driving my fx for the next 3-4 years with this HR drive train powering it, this much I'm at least fairly sure of
plan b, if I can't pull off getting it to run factory style would be to get it to run on the original DE ecu from my fx. I think I have a much better chance of success with this method & there are a lot of reasons why this would be easier, but it will take a few compromises I wouldn't look forward to accepting & also have it's own set of stumbling points too. one main thing is I would probably have to go back to a single throttle body, & Will involve a custom intake manifold setup. also I will loose the native ecu control of the intake & exhaust cams variable timing. this variable cam timing is part of the magic of these HR motors, & is the main reason why the HR has such a better torque & HP curves all through the mid range & better low range, while also being better on the top end too, variable valve timing is a nice thing that I'd hate to sacrifice, but of course this would work just as well as the DE did without it too if I had to fall back on plan b.
all that being said, the more I study the factory service manuals for the fx35 & the g35x the more comfortable I'm getting with the systems & the more sense it's all making as to how it works & what it needs to work too & it's starting to look not so difficult really. the truth is the FSM's are the very same thing that even the top Nissan techs use, & theoretically these manual's, combined with a consult III should be enough to do what needs to be done or figure out what needs to be figured out.
when the tech team that did the race car swap tried to get more advanced information from Nissan corporate they were not much help. they were told info like that can only come from japan & there is just no access to it. part of this is about privacy & protecting there intellectual property from the competition too according to these techs. researching something like this would be so much easier if stuff like all the PID's used in communication were published & documented & the communication language & instruction architecture was documented & full wiring & pinnouts were available, but the truth is Nissan has no reason to want this much proprietary info not be classified. the information that is available is enough to service & repair any factory vehicle in factory aplication, with procedures that involve diagnosing trouble & replacing defective parts, but they have no interest in helping anyone use any of there components or parts of there design & products in ways that they didn't intend nor to help anyone backward engineer there designs or disclose much of the inner workings.
well that's the latest update, def gonna be fun, can't wait to drive my fx again hopefully come springtime, I miss it already :tonguey:
also now starting to heavily research what's involved in this swap in more detail, up until now I haven't really got very deep & detailed with my research, just skimmed the surface & dove in by buying it, but trust me a swap like this takes a whole lot of R&D, with a whole lot of research before there can even be any developments at all.
first of all let me say that this is an extremely complicated swap, so much so that it has never been done before except for a few professional race teams with huge budgets & by sacrificing a few systems & some functionality along the way too. even factory Nissan techs are saying that it is a monumental task to consider even with full factory support
GTM initiated a swap like this & posted that they were doing it with pictures of the motor & everything, twin turbo's & all, but stopped posting about it shortly after & a year later has no further developments or even answers anyone about it anymore for whatever that's worth, maybe the customer ran out of funds? several have attempted it but bailed after hitting too many stumbling blocks, & there are more than a few guys out there with a whole bunch of parts & vehicles in pieces but nothing done & actually running yet as far as I've been able to find. of course right now I fall into the same category of having the parts & soon to be dissembled vehicle & a lot of hope
one guy from nissansport magazine did a swap like this is a race car & they worked with an ASE Master and Nissan Senior tech & they even had factory support & it was still a challenge, they still had check engine lights & some systems not functioning but being a race car they can deal with that. there are others who have cut up there harnesses & realized too late that there in way over there heads...
many enthusiasts have explored this option but no one has succeeded yet... after finding all the disappointing info out there about this, & the lack of much real helpful information in general it looks to be a real challenge, the pro's that have gained knowledge by doing stuff like this are not the type that want to even share information, it's no wonder many are also pretty scared off by the thought of this, I think that's what I like about the thought of doing this now, & I know it will be a nice feeling of accomplishment when I do pull this off, I think I like the challenge, I mean how fun would life be without challenges? this should be fun to pull off I think, I've never been the one to just go for the easy way out
at this point I'm learning all the in's & outs of the Nissan control systems, learning about all the differences between the 03 systems & the newer controls too & as much as I can about how everything really works in detail. the electronics here are pretty wild & amazing & at the same time pretty complicated. I have a few different ways I can go with trying to get this to work but my preferred way & my primary focus & goal so far is on trying to get it to run on the HR ecu, keeping all systems intact & have it run just like it thinks it's still in a g35x & have all systems working like factory. I don't know for sure that I can do this 100% though. one big factor is I don't have & can't get my own consult III, & there are so many things that only a consult III can do in these systems... this is not something I can just buy at all, & no matter what I'm going to have to find at least someone with access to a consult III, but I will have limited availability to it at best.
usually I don't have a plan b, because a plan b is just an indication that your considering you may fail at your main plan & I'd rather go in just not even thinking about not being able to do it, but on something this involved & this complicated & the potential of just getting to some serious roadblocks & considering the stakes involved are my driving my fx ever again I need at least a plan b here, & even have a c & d if need be... I may not know exactly how I'm going to pull this off but I do know that one way or another I will wind up driving my fx for the next 3-4 years with this HR drive train powering it, this much I'm at least fairly sure of
plan b, if I can't pull off getting it to run factory style would be to get it to run on the original DE ecu from my fx. I think I have a much better chance of success with this method & there are a lot of reasons why this would be easier, but it will take a few compromises I wouldn't look forward to accepting & also have it's own set of stumbling points too. one main thing is I would probably have to go back to a single throttle body, & Will involve a custom intake manifold setup. also I will loose the native ecu control of the intake & exhaust cams variable timing. this variable cam timing is part of the magic of these HR motors, & is the main reason why the HR has such a better torque & HP curves all through the mid range & better low range, while also being better on the top end too, variable valve timing is a nice thing that I'd hate to sacrifice, but of course this would work just as well as the DE did without it too if I had to fall back on plan b.
all that being said, the more I study the factory service manuals for the fx35 & the g35x the more comfortable I'm getting with the systems & the more sense it's all making as to how it works & what it needs to work too & it's starting to look not so difficult really. the truth is the FSM's are the very same thing that even the top Nissan techs use, & theoretically these manual's, combined with a consult III should be enough to do what needs to be done or figure out what needs to be figured out.
when the tech team that did the race car swap tried to get more advanced information from Nissan corporate they were not much help. they were told info like that can only come from japan & there is just no access to it. part of this is about privacy & protecting there intellectual property from the competition too according to these techs. researching something like this would be so much easier if stuff like all the PID's used in communication were published & documented & the communication language & instruction architecture was documented & full wiring & pinnouts were available, but the truth is Nissan has no reason to want this much proprietary info not be classified. the information that is available is enough to service & repair any factory vehicle in factory aplication, with procedures that involve diagnosing trouble & replacing defective parts, but they have no interest in helping anyone use any of there components or parts of there design & products in ways that they didn't intend nor to help anyone backward engineer there designs or disclose much of the inner workings.
well that's the latest update, def gonna be fun, can't wait to drive my fx again hopefully come springtime, I miss it already :tonguey:
- Car
- 2003 FX35T
- Name
- Brad
Seriously - good luck. I know you are driven and enjoy a challenge so I hope it works out for you. This would also be something I would enjoy working out, but I would need to have the facility and infrastructure that you do. Being in the business gives you a huge advantage. Time is the biggest hurdle you'll have to overcome, but I know you're aware of exactly what you'll be facing, including the unknowns.
After considering all of my options, I came back to the JWT TT for the built DE. My plan B is buying a used 240SX and ripping it apart - maybe doing a VQ swap into that. I need a lot more education than you do, so I need to plan on taking the car down for a lot longer than a season or two. Should be fun tho - and so will watching your progress on this swap.
After considering all of my options, I came back to the JWT TT for the built DE. My plan B is buying a used 240SX and ripping it apart - maybe doing a VQ swap into that. I need a lot more education than you do, so I need to plan on taking the car down for a lot longer than a season or two. Should be fun tho - and so will watching your progress on this swap.
Good Luck Turbo! It will be challenging and fun for project like this. I have faith you will overcome those difficulties and challenges.
For the ECU, are going to use the OEM ECU or a stand alone like Haltec?
For the ECU, are going to use the OEM ECU or a stand alone like Haltec?
