New Oil Analysis, M1 TDT turns the tide

C

cheetahdriver

Member
Location
NW Ark
this vehicle has been my worry bead on lubrication. my beloved M1 0w40 just can't seem to tame it, so i went to TDT with much better results. refill was Delvac1, will try taking it out to 15k.

Code: 
Oil Filter--------M1
OIL                    M1 Delvac1       M1 0w40        M1 0w40      M1 0w40  
MILES IN USE ------   9800           9986               5000            9437
MI/HR-ON-UNIT-----    91800         69627             59641           54641

ALUMINUM----------      4             4       [/FONT][FONT=Arial]   (3)      [/FONT][FONT=Arial]     4
CHROMIUM----------     1          [/FONT][FONT=Arial]1        [/FONT][FONT=Arial]     (1)     [/FONT][FONT=Arial]      1
IRON--------------           26       [/FONT][FONT=Arial] 38        [/FONT][FONT=Arial]  (10)          [/FONT][FONT=Arial] 15
COPPER-----------        5             [/FONT][FONT=Arial]3      [/FONT][FONT=Arial]    (3)            [/FONT][FONT=Arial] 3
LEAD--------------          7          [/FONT][FONT=Arial]15        [/FONT][FONT=Arial] (6)   [/FONT][FONT=Arial]      25
TIN---------------             1         [/FONT][FONT=Arial]   5       [/FONT][FONT=Arial]  (0)      [/FONT][FONT=Arial]   0
MOLYBDENUM-------- 19         [/FONT][FONT=Arial] 75         [/FONT][FONT=Arial](74)        [/FONT][FONT=Arial] 87
NICKEL------------         0           [/FONT][FONT=Arial] 0         [/FONT][FONT=Arial] (0)      [/FONT][FONT=Arial]   0
MANGANESE---------  1           [/FONT][FONT=Arial]1          [/FONT][FONT=Arial] (0)       [/FONT][FONT=Arial]  0
SILVER------------         0         [/FONT][FONT=Arial]0     [/FONT][FONT=Arial]    (0)         [/FONT][FONT=Arial]0
TITANIUM----------        0        [/FONT][FONT=Arial] 0           [/FONT][FONT=Arial](0)         [/FONT][FONT=Arial]0
POTASSIUM--------     3         [/FONT][FONT=Arial]3   [/FONT][FONT=Arial]      (3)         [/FONT][FONT=Arial]0
BORON-------------       38         115            (124)        [/FONT][FONT=Arial] 127
SILICON-----------        11         13              (11)         [/FONT][FONT=Arial]10
SODIUM------------       5         [/FONT][FONT=Arial]7              (8)         [/FONT][FONT=Arial]10
CALCIUM-----------       1702      2847         (2551)        [/FONT][FONT=Arial]2941
MAGNESIUM---------   665         15           (13)      [/FONT][FONT=Arial]   17
PHOSPHORUS-------- 913         823         (728)   [/FONT][FONT=Arial]      813
ZINC--------------           1150      1016         (895)         [/FONT][FONT=Arial]1034
BARIUM------------       0        0

SUS-VIS@210F------     76.9         71.3         (70.9)    [/FONT][FONT=Arial]    70.9
cSt-VIS@100c------     14.75         13.29         (13.19)         13.19
FLASHPOINT-IN-F---      410          390         (420)            395
FUEL%-------------<0.5
ANTIFREEZE%-------0.0
WATER%------------0.0
INSOLUBLES%-------     0.3         0.3         (0.3)         0.4
TBN---------------              3.0         3.9         (6.0)         2.4 
[/FONT]

 
cheetahdriver said:
this vehicle has been my worry bead on lubrication. my beloved M1 0w40 just can't seem to tame it, so i went to TDT with much better results. refill was Delvac1, will try taking it out to 15k.

Code: 
Oil Filter--------M1
OIL                    M1 Delvac1       M1 0w40        M1 0w40      M1 0w40  
MILES IN USE ------   9800           9986               5000            9437
MI/HR-ON-UNIT-----    91800         69627             59641           54641

ALUMINUM----------      4             4
Code: 
[FONT=Arial]   (3)      [/FONT][FONT=Arial]     4
CHROMIUM----------     1          [/FONT][FONT=Arial]1        [/FONT][FONT=Arial]     (1)     [/FONT][FONT=Arial]      1
IRON--------------           26       [/FONT][FONT=Arial] 38        [/FONT][FONT=Arial]  (10)          [/FONT][FONT=Arial] 15
COPPER-----------        5             [/FONT][FONT=Arial]3      [/FONT][FONT=Arial]    (3)            [/FONT][FONT=Arial] 3
LEAD--------------          7          [/FONT][FONT=Arial]15        [/FONT][FONT=Arial] (6)   [/FONT][FONT=Arial]      25
TIN---------------             1         [/FONT][FONT=Arial]   5       [/FONT][FONT=Arial]  (0)      [/FONT][FONT=Arial]   0
MOLYBDENUM-------- 19         [/FONT][FONT=Arial] 75         [/FONT][FONT=Arial](74)        [/FONT][FONT=Arial] 87
NICKEL------------         0           [/FONT][FONT=Arial] 0         [/FONT][FONT=Arial] (0)      [/FONT][FONT=Arial]   0
MANGANESE---------  1           [/FONT][FONT=Arial]1          [/FONT][FONT=Arial] (0)       [/FONT][FONT=Arial]  0
SILVER------------         0         [/FONT][FONT=Arial]0     [/FONT][FONT=Arial]    (0)         [/FONT][FONT=Arial]0
TITANIUM----------        0        [/FONT][FONT=Arial] 0           [/FONT][FONT=Arial](0)         [/FONT][FONT=Arial]0
POTASSIUM--------     3         [/FONT][FONT=Arial]3   [/FONT][FONT=Arial]      (3)         [/FONT][FONT=Arial]0
BORON-------------       38         115            (124)        [/FONT][FONT=Arial] 127
SILICON-----------        11         13              (11)         [/FONT][FONT=Arial]10
SODIUM------------       5         [/FONT][FONT=Arial]7              (8)         [/FONT][FONT=Arial]10
CALCIUM-----------       1702      2847         (2551)        [/FONT][FONT=Arial]2941
MAGNESIUM---------   665         15           (13)      [/FONT][FONT=Arial]   17
PHOSPHORUS-------- 913         823         (728)   [/FONT][FONT=Arial]      813
ZINC--------------           1150      1016         (895)         [/FONT][FONT=Arial]1034
BARIUM------------       0        0

SUS-VIS@210F------     76.9         71.3         (70.9)    [/FONT][FONT=Arial]    70.9
cSt-VIS@100c------     14.75         13.29         (13.19)         13.19
FLASHPOINT-IN-F---      410          390         (420)            395
FUEL%-------------<0.5
ANTIFREEZE%-------0.0
WATER%------------0.0
INSOLUBLES%-------     0.3         0.3         (0.3)         0.4
TBN---------------              3.0         3.9         (6.0)         2.4 
[/FONT]
Click to expand...

Can you translate this? I don't know what I'm reading here...
 
From the top, we have the filter type (oil type is M1 TDT (TurboDieselTruck) 5w40 on the left column and 0w40 on the rest) the miles per change and the total miles on the engine.

The next 11 metals are considered wear metals, ie, they are not found in the oil (normally) and are not metals often that can come from the environment like sodium (although Al is also a part of dirt normally). For a listing of probable sources, i would direct you here

www.fluidlife.com/media/pdfs/wear_origins_mobile.pdf

Boron, Calcium, Phosphorous and Zinc are all part of the oil additive package, they act as acid neutralizers, anti wear additives, friction modifiers, etc. They are not there as elements, they are present in highly complex molecules, but show up on the test only as elements. Looking at the amount of the elements in the used oil vs a virgin oil analysis gives a good idea of how depleted an oil is.

Silicon is for the most part dirt. Sodium can be dirt (salt) or show an antifreeze leak (it is also an oil additive in some oils, but not this one).

Then the two viscosity numbers, which show what the current oil viscosity is at two temperatures. This oil held in grade just fine, many will shear down depending on applications and contaminants. Flash point can show fuel contamination (if it depresses) or loss of volatile fractions of the oil (if it goes up). Fuel, water and and antifreeze are self explanatory. Insolubles are the amount of solids in the oil. TBN is the Total Base Number, a measure of how much acid the oil can neutralize and typically the prime measure of oil life. Depending on the measurement method, an oil is considered depleted when the TBN reaches 0 (or with this lab 1). It typically starts out at 9-12.

With these 4 tests, the far right is the first test at 54k with ~10k miles on the oil. Note that to compare samples you need to divide the metals by the k number of miles to get ppm/1000 miles, otherwise you are comparing apples and oranges. The first test startled me with high Pb (lead) at 2.5/1000 miles (2.5/k). the Fe (iron) didn't bother me much as it is an extended oil change. I dumped the second change at ~5k, because I was afraid i was going to get "extra chunky" out of the sump. The Pb dropped in half to 1.2/k, which made me think I may have had a "particle streak", a large particle scraping along the bearing and causing a jump in metals. So I left the next change in for 10k again, and while the Pb stayed about the same at 1.5/k, now we see Sn (tin) which is also a bearing metal and wasn't present before. So, fearing that the bottom end was starting to wear, i decided to bring up TDT, which is the previous form of Delvac1. The TDT brought the iron down, cut the lead in half and also got slightly better mileage than my 0w40.

Some engines just show quite a few wear metals. The Toyota 4.7L V8 engines are mythical for showing little or no wear metals, with almost any oil. The problem I have is that there are very few of the VK45DE engines on BITOG's Oil Analysis posting forum so I have very little to compare to. Normally, Blackstone will give you averages out of their database to give you a comparison, but in this case they have the VK engines lumped in with the VH engines. As I plan on pushing the FX out past 150k (i put about 45k a year on it), I was somewhat worried about the bottom end wear indicators showing up.

Switching to the current Delvac1 ESP is really more of a tip of the hat to the current champ of Heavy Duty Engine (HDEO) oils. It has a high enough TBN (Total Base Number, a measure of how used up the oil it) to carry it to 15k i believe.

The thing I find interesting is that this engine seems to like a thicker oil than Nissan recommended.

 
cheetahdriver said:
From the top, we have the filter type (oil type is M1 TDT (TurboDieselTruck) 5w40 on the left column and 0w40 on the rest) the miles per change and the total miles on the engine.

..........

The thing I find interesting is that this engine seems to like a thicker oil than Nissan recommended.

Click to expand...

Wow, that is interesting, thanks!

A couple questions:
1. Does a particle streak show up intermittently as the bearing rotates or is it a one time deal? Or is it a progressive issue?
2. Assume two different oils, "A" and "B". Oil A has a TBN range of 9-1 and oil B has a TBN range of 12-1. When they both reach a TBN of 5, is one more protective than the other?
 
Last edited:
in answer to the questions.

1. a particle streak is a one time event. a particle gets trapped between the bearing and the crankshaft and is pushed into the bearing, or scraped along it until the particle is either embedded in the softer bearing material or broken by the force between the two and ejected. if embedded, the particle is out of play as well, as it is no longer in contact with the crank and wears down with the bearing.

2. with respect to acid neutralization ONLY, they both have the same level of neutralization available. this does not mean that the oils have the same levels of other additives, or that the wear will be the same using either. it may mean that they have the same remaining life in the same application, or not. TBN retention usually is a non-linear function, depending on how the additive package in the oil works. many oils have multipurpose additives that as the oils reach low TBNs start acting as buffers (as well as detergents or anti wear additives). this is why TBN is a good indication of oil exhaustion, when the oil goes to condemnation point it not only can turn acid, it is loosing additive effectiveness in several areas.
 
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