"LittleGagne"
Member
- Location
- Pot Falls
Congrats!
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Jumbo Boost
- Thread starter jumbosrule
- Start date
- Location
- Houston,Tx
- Car
- 2007 Infiniti FX35 AWD
wow that's awesome brad congrats! i bet when you got off the phone with shop you wanted to do a backflip lol
In my continuing pursuit of a turbo build that's balanced with both performance and reliability, I recently decided to change to a different set of injectors. My install shop offered to give me credit for the OEM GTR injectors I am currently running, so the difference in cost is small enough that i want to see if we can improve the system.
Summer is rapidly approaching and last year we tuned the 550cc injectors to be running at 85% duty cycle at 105 degrees - which is maxed out in my opinion. 15% margin of safety isn't much. My goal this time around is to go with 700cc injectors, putting them into a lower duty cycle that I'm more comfortable with. Last thing I want to do is fuel starve which would be technically possible if I increase the boost.
In addition, the GTR injectors run at a base pressure of 60psi which is higher than our standard FX 40psi. There's nothing wrong with that, but I feel better about the lower base fuel pressure (it rises with boost anyway) and a bigger margin on the injectors. When I first decided on the GTR injectors, I was under the impression that they would support my power goals and as a bonus they were plug and play on the VQ. Now it seems that due to my drivetrain losses, I have to max out the injectors to hit my power goals (in the summer anyway). Will post results and the product info as soon as I have it.
Summer is rapidly approaching and last year we tuned the 550cc injectors to be running at 85% duty cycle at 105 degrees - which is maxed out in my opinion. 15% margin of safety isn't much. My goal this time around is to go with 700cc injectors, putting them into a lower duty cycle that I'm more comfortable with. Last thing I want to do is fuel starve which would be technically possible if I increase the boost.
In addition, the GTR injectors run at a base pressure of 60psi which is higher than our standard FX 40psi. There's nothing wrong with that, but I feel better about the lower base fuel pressure (it rises with boost anyway) and a bigger margin on the injectors. When I first decided on the GTR injectors, I was under the impression that they would support my power goals and as a bonus they were plug and play on the VQ. Now it seems that due to my drivetrain losses, I have to max out the injectors to hit my power goals (in the summer anyway). Will post results and the product info as soon as I have it.
raymond
Member
- Location
- Netherlands
- Car
- FX35 RWD
Brad i'm looking into the 725CC injectors from the company Injetor Dynamics. It seems that the are building up quite some rep for themselves. Tolerance is 1% in additional too the 2% of other injectors.
Here is the website: http://www.injectordynamics.com/
Here is the website: http://www.injectordynamics.com/
- Location
- Westminster OC
- Car
- car
Have you considered changing your turbo piping diameter? At the throttle body, most kits (from memory) don't use much of a reducing coupler. I use a 3", think the Greddy and JWT are 2.75" piping to the throttle body.
- Location
- Portland, OR
Sorry to butt in with a dumb question, but just out of curiosity what would increasing the piping diameter accomplish? You're talking about the cold side plumbing right?
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raymond
Member
- Location
- Netherlands
- Car
- FX35 RWD
From what i understood it was more difficult to tune when still A/T if running a bigger 3 inch MAF housing. I gues that includes the piping as well....??
- Location
- Westminster OC
- Car
- car
He's running a map sensor so maf is not an issue, I run a 3" maf with rescaling in the ecu.
With a 3" downpipe, I'll assume they used a good size pipe before the intercooler 2.75-3", not sure why anyone would really want a 2.5" cold side (guessing on that pipe size cause it's not 2.75"), unless the hot side side is 2.5" as well which is too small too.
View attachment 200404
With a 3" downpipe, I'll assume they used a good size pipe before the intercooler 2.75-3", not sure why anyone would really want a 2.5" cold side (guessing on that pipe size cause it's not 2.75"), unless the hot side side is 2.5" as well which is too small too.
View attachment 200404
raymond
Member
- Location
- Netherlands
- Car
- FX35 RWD
Uhhhh so i guess i will have issues with the TN piping and kit then. But with a goal of 400-450 Whp i hope it 'll be just enough :err:
Yes - those are the injectors that arrived yestserday. 725cc part number G35-725. Plan to install them tomorrow.
No - haven't considered it. There would be no mesureable benefit at these power & induction pressure levels. That kind of a change wouldn't be money well spent since we are talking entirely custom fabrication and I can't use more power - the tranny won't take it. Going to a larger cold side tube would essentially increase the volume that the turbo has to pressurize, making throttle response lag more. If I were going for more power, it might make sense but I'm not so it's not on the table.
raymond
Member
- Location
- Netherlands
- Car
- FX35 RWD
Ohhh really we are almost becoming a siamese twin in these projects haha. I calles them today ;-)
They use different part numbers for the G and the Z......would there be any differences......i thought not.
I saw on the website the injectors came with sort of harnesses.......did you see them already.....and can you post pics of what you got....??
Or email them to me
I talked to the shop about what they thought the pros and cons would be with going to bigger cold side pipes. They agreed that the 2.5" is more than sufficient for my current power levels even with room to expand. They ran this same size tube and same configuration on a G35 turbo setup and made 550whp. Another point the shop made is that the turbo outlet is only 2". As long as there is nothing further restrictive downstream, the system should not slow down flow to the throttle body under boost.
We talked about F1 designs where they use the smallest possible tubing from turbo to intercooler (equal to turbo outlet size) then switch to the largest possible tubing from intercooler to throttle body. The BOV is before the intercooler so the turbo has a very small tube to pressurize while the engine has a larger volume of air from which to draw during throttle changes. There are arguments both for and against each side so even those guys don't agree at that level.
Ray - here they are:
And we ordered the pigtail option for the wire harness - this means we will cut out the old injector connector and solder in the new connector.
The shop has experience with these and said that Uprev will absolutely need to be re-tuned. The response of these injectors are not linear which allows for a normal idle and normal WOT conditions in terms of injector dwell time. It does change things with regaurds to the vacuum levels so the tune will need to consider that.
We talked about F1 designs where they use the smallest possible tubing from turbo to intercooler (equal to turbo outlet size) then switch to the largest possible tubing from intercooler to throttle body. The BOV is before the intercooler so the turbo has a very small tube to pressurize while the engine has a larger volume of air from which to draw during throttle changes. There are arguments both for and against each side so even those guys don't agree at that level.
Ray - here they are:
And we ordered the pigtail option for the wire harness - this means we will cut out the old injector connector and solder in the new connector.
The shop has experience with these and said that Uprev will absolutely need to be re-tuned. The response of these injectors are not linear which allows for a normal idle and normal WOT conditions in terms of injector dwell time. It does change things with regaurds to the vacuum levels so the tune will need to consider that.
Attachments
raymond
Member
- Location
- Netherlands
- Car
- FX35 RWD
Any particular reason why you and the shop didn't went for the plug and play harness...?? I'm not that into cutting honestly so why bother if you can get a plug an play......
I asked the same question - the answer they gave me was in that area there is not a lot of room and it is difficult to restrain the extra six connectors and difficult to protect them from the high heat in the area. Soldering would just be more clean and long term reliable.
Ray with the amount of work you are doing to your FX there is no reason to draw the line at cutting off the OEM injector connectors - especially if you want to tuck some of the wires and improve the engine bay aesthetic. Either way will work though - plug & play or cut & solder. Just go with your heart, brother!
Ray with the amount of work you are doing to your FX there is no reason to draw the line at cutting off the OEM injector connectors - especially if you want to tuck some of the wires and improve the engine bay aesthetic. Either way will work though - plug & play or cut & solder. Just go with your heart, brother!
raymond
Member
- Location
- Netherlands
- Car
- FX35 RWD
Haha your right i'm just not too technical myself on some things and have to ask others to do it. But estatics.....that's me.....so the reason why i ordered the harness was that the connectors and wiring seem to be all black.....wich looks better then our oem grey harness wich due to the new harness will fall behind the engine. I gues that is where the heat issue comes in the story......ohh well...lott of heat sockets lying here so i just play with it for a while i gues :wub:
jtranstudios
Member
- Location
- texas
if you are inducing lag due to the final drive or the actual back side housing be larger then before, then what your tuner can do is up the cam advance map on the osirius or on the haltech. inducing more cam timing will actual scavenge alot more exhaust and help the turbo spool up quicker. the more the cam timing, the leaner the mixture will be thus having to retune the low to mid range of the map. mivec, vtc, vvti, ivtec etc is tuned the same way. being that it is just a de you have to remember that the stock cam timing map is setup for na and not for boost. more cam timing=earlier boost. we have a gt40r on stock headers with two two inch feed pipes on a diveded t4 that we get full 16 psi of boost at 4200 rpm. with his original 35r setup, powerlab, we got the car to full spool 18 psi at 3800 with the cam timing advanced tables modified. you can actually here the turbo surging and log it if you have too much cam timing. it will actually overboost then come back down and settle out. if you are sill having spark blow out problems i would change the spark plugs out with some denso tid bits and also check the timing map up top. just putting my two cents in.
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Finally got the car to the shop for some ankle biters.
1) ID 720CC injectors are being installed and of course the tune will need to be modified.
2) Bracket on the crossover tube, passenger side is broken. We think this is from the movement of the motor so we will be adding in an isolation mount to allow some flex.
3) GTSpec STB powdercoat same black as the harness cover and OCC. Totally cosmetic but I'm thinking it will look better than having the different silver colors of the crossover tube, manifold and STB.
4) Got a new rattle. Recent development. Sounds like right rear - will check the coilovers and the new rear sway bar & links. Could be exhaust rattle in disguise. Will check that too.
5) Oil Catch Can - While I really love the look of this catch can, we went with an unproven design and it's not doing it's job with the brass breathers (to my satisfaction). When the car is hot, I can see "steam" coming out of the breathers, which is oil and blow-by. After a few weeks, there is a film of oil on everything in the bay. Not hard to clean up if I stay on top of it but I'd rather have a OCC that works properly. We are going to modify this one and possibly remake it entirely. The one I have still catches oil but some of it escapes and we are going to see if we can't do better with the next design iteration.
The car has been great to drive, I'm really having a blast with it. I feel like these little items are just polish - stuff I'm just tweaking to get perfect. I'm not much closer to getting my wheels. Still want to install some new electronics first and maybe do a little interior work? I really want to get the all black headliner and upper interior.
1) ID 720CC injectors are being installed and of course the tune will need to be modified.
2) Bracket on the crossover tube, passenger side is broken. We think this is from the movement of the motor so we will be adding in an isolation mount to allow some flex.
3) GTSpec STB powdercoat same black as the harness cover and OCC. Totally cosmetic but I'm thinking it will look better than having the different silver colors of the crossover tube, manifold and STB.
4) Got a new rattle. Recent development. Sounds like right rear - will check the coilovers and the new rear sway bar & links. Could be exhaust rattle in disguise. Will check that too.
5) Oil Catch Can - While I really love the look of this catch can, we went with an unproven design and it's not doing it's job with the brass breathers (to my satisfaction). When the car is hot, I can see "steam" coming out of the breathers, which is oil and blow-by. After a few weeks, there is a film of oil on everything in the bay. Not hard to clean up if I stay on top of it but I'd rather have a OCC that works properly. We are going to modify this one and possibly remake it entirely. The one I have still catches oil but some of it escapes and we are going to see if we can't do better with the next design iteration.
The car has been great to drive, I'm really having a blast with it. I feel like these little items are just polish - stuff I'm just tweaking to get perfect. I'm not much closer to getting my wheels. Still want to install some new electronics first and maybe do a little interior work? I really want to get the all black headliner and upper interior.
While the car was in the shop, I got everything done I wanted except for the Oil Catch Can. Future project.
Also got my second OCA.
Both the shop and I noticed that oil pressure seems to be dropping quite low when the motor is warm and standing at idle. It's almost as if the Rotella gets very loose - almost zero viscoscity. However, the motor shows no signs of stress or wear beyond what's expected. The other part of that issue is that I guess it is possible the oil pressure gauge is reading low or that the sender voltage is not consistent.
Finally, I had the GTSpec Strut Tower Brace and brackets powdercoated black to match the Rare JDM wire harness cover and the Oil Catch Can.
Also got my second OCA.
Both the shop and I noticed that oil pressure seems to be dropping quite low when the motor is warm and standing at idle. It's almost as if the Rotella gets very loose - almost zero viscoscity. However, the motor shows no signs of stress or wear beyond what's expected. The other part of that issue is that I guess it is possible the oil pressure gauge is reading low or that the sender voltage is not consistent.
Finally, I had the GTSpec Strut Tower Brace and brackets powdercoated black to match the Rare JDM wire harness cover and the Oil Catch Can.
Attachments
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Nate@RAM
Member
- Location
- Irvine, CA
SFR advertises 750 whp on the G35 auto tranny. I'm sure they can get the FX tranny near similar numbers.
The overheating sounds like maybe the coolers should be re-oriented. I didn't read the whole thread. Are these oil or coolant cooled turbos?
The overheating sounds like maybe the coolers should be re-oriented. I didn't read the whole thread. Are these oil or coolant cooled turbos?
raymond
Member
- Location
- Netherlands
- Car
- FX35 RWD
A wise man once told me and i quote: "
The example of the G37 at 537whp is nice but it doesn't mean very much for our FX application. We are bigger and heavier and have a larger drivetrain loss of power. The reason I say the limit is 450whp is because when my FX was being tuned on the dyno, we started with low boost. Then we slowly increase boost and check tune (timing, fuel) at each boost level. At 16psi I make 430whp to the wheels. Above 16psi, the transmission would slip. It simply could not hold the load and the clutch plates started to slip past each other. If I left the power at this level, I would roast the clutch plates until they simply would not do the job anymore.
It's because of our drivetrain weight that the transmission is limited. One way to get more power would be to get a light weight drive shaft and the lightest wheels you can find.
There is still the fully built transmission option from a place in California. I think they charge $3K US with your core. If I ever want more power, I think I would buy this rather than doing a manual swap.
" End Quote
The example of the G37 at 537whp is nice but it doesn't mean very much for our FX application. We are bigger and heavier and have a larger drivetrain loss of power. The reason I say the limit is 450whp is because when my FX was being tuned on the dyno, we started with low boost. Then we slowly increase boost and check tune (timing, fuel) at each boost level. At 16psi I make 430whp to the wheels. Above 16psi, the transmission would slip. It simply could not hold the load and the clutch plates started to slip past each other. If I left the power at this level, I would roast the clutch plates until they simply would not do the job anymore.
It's because of our drivetrain weight that the transmission is limited. One way to get more power would be to get a light weight drive shaft and the lightest wheels you can find.
There is still the fully built transmission option from a place in California. I think they charge $3K US with your core. If I ever want more power, I think I would buy this rather than doing a manual swap.
" End Quote