Different Big Brake Kits Discussion - Pros and Cons

Which big brake kit would you get? (purposely left vague for discussion)

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turbocad6 said:
since I was complaining about the squeal I was getting with the rotoras here, just figured I'd also add here that I did solve this... a bit of disc brake quiet sprayed on the back of the pads did the trick... funny in that the rears do use anti squeal plates behind the pads but the fronts don't... unless I just never recieved the fronts & maybe there supposed to be there too?

also, another thing to add here, when replacing 2 piece rotors discs, the torque value they give for tightening the rivets is very very critical... learned this the hard way:tongue: I didn't have available at the time a 5 ftlb torque wrench so I just figured ah, I know about what 5 ftlbs of torque is approx., well, no, even overtightening them a little can lead to problems with warpage, this is one of those things that you MUSt be very critical with the torque values so the disimilar metals can each expand & contract at there own rate unihibited by the other, the rivets are designed to allow the disc to "float" on the hat when torqued properly...
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Good info here. Few questions though, can you post what spray you used? Also, this is done on the back? I typically use the silicone compound that was provided with my akebono pads -- did you use this and the spray?

I never even thought about purchasing just the rotor for the 2 piece and re-using the hat. Wonder how much that saves?

Also, I had some issues with my brakes and pads (OEM FX35/FX45) squeaking after maybe 10,000 miles of use. I thought to turn the rotors, but all I did was a semi-bedding in procedure -- seems to have burned off any "glaze" and no more squeal! (brake really hard from 60 mph to 10 mph and repeat a few times). Squeak is gone.
 
I believe it was called disc brake quiet, made by permatex, you know, the gasket people... what it does according to them is, it fills the micro gaps that would be between the pistons & the back of the pad... I think the fact that it is kinda sticky & gummy makes the pad stick somewhat to the pistons too, reducing resonations & perhaps even allowing the pad to be pulled back slightly from the rotor when the brake is released, either way it went to completely silent from an annoying squeal at times...

with rotora, the hats are around $275 & the discs are around $300..these prices are EACH, so yeah, much more cost effective to just change the discs... also FYI, the "rivets"(bolt/spring assy's) that hold the 2 togeather are $10 each, & there are 10 of them on each rotor... they are included with the discs & should be replaced each time there seperated, but they are not included with the hats.

I was pissed that my own stupidity caused me to warp my rotor assemblies & I ordered 2 new hats & all new rivets just to be on the safe side & get her back to "right"... also discovered a few cracks at the hats where the lug nuts are, probably from overtightening in the past... now I torque my wheels down, much more critical with an aluminum hat than just a regular steel rotor... yeah, even I fuck up sometimes & boy, was this a costly fuckup :tongue:
 
Okay, here is a tease. I only had my blackberry phone on me. I will give a full update when I get the chance, thanks to this thread I finally came to a decision that was best for me:
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Did AP Racing have red calipers also then...?? I only see blacks on sites everywhere.
I'm guesing Rotoras but could be brembo as well.......:ever:

Looking good Ed......nice wheels btw also....bit of porsche 997 Turbo design isn't it...??

Have fun with it all :tup:
 
raymond said:
Did AP Racing have red calipers also then...?? I only see blacks on sites everywhere.
I'm guesing Rotoras but could be brembo as well.......:ever:

Looking good Ed......nice wheels btw also....bit of porsche 997 Turbo design isn't it...??

Have fun with it all :tup:
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Thanks, I parked next to a Porsche the other day and the wheels were pretty identical in design. I'm liking the wheel design more and more. Maybe because I like the Porsche so much too.

---------- Post added at 09:16 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:13 AM ----------
chiFX45 said:
sweet ed!!!!! you bastard.

also, your rim is dirty.
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Ha, didn't bother cleaning it. It's in the body shop as we speak.... I wish I could say getting a body kit but it's getting a touch up of a scratch. I backed up into my lawn mower, hahahaha. I swear it moved and hit my car....

---------- Post added at 09:17 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:16 AM ----------
HumbertoCALI said:
a tease indeed....

C'mon man..
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You're one to talk:zip::rofl:

When is your body kit done so you can make a mold and ship one out to me???

---------- Post added at 09:18 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:17 AM ----------
turbocad6 said:
awe man what a tease! take it off, errr, roller up, ahh... you know what I mean, show those brakes man!!:tongue:
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:rolleyes:
 
Don't forget the heads our FX turn, cause i had sooo much fun a couple of weeks ago.
I was driving behind a guy with a brand new Porsche 997 Turbo in white. Driving true a street in the city here with all sort of restaurant and bars, so he wanted to show off his new ride but ray was behind him :glasses:..........lett just say he wasn't that amused with a car maybe 3-4 times more expensive and had to share the attention :laugh:
 
Stoptech tech talk

Something you guys might find really interesting. AFTER I did the Stoptech BBK in the front (upgraded rotors, lines & pads in the rear) I had some questions for Stoptech. I was surprised to hear some of these answers, but technical reasoning extends to more than just Stoptech products.


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I'm totally happy with the brakes as they are - performance wise. But I plan to install a twin turbo soon and wonder if I have enough stopping power with your kit.



“Stopping power” is an oft misapplied term. What most think it means is more clamping power to push the pads against the rotor with more force, which is only part of the equation. The more correct term is “brake torque”, which is a combination of pressure output of the caliper (controlled by piston size and overall system pressure, i.e. how hard you push on the pedal), the radius at which that force is applied (bigger rotor diameter means more torque if all else is equal) and the coefficient of friction of the brake pads. We are NOT looking to increase brake torque as it will throw off the balance of the brakes. The vehicle manufacturer spent a lot of time and money getting the front to rear balance optimized, and we work to maintain that balance, or maybe very slightly tweak it, which yields the best performance in terms of stopping distance and integration with the rest of the vehicle systems. Adding brake torque to the front (let’s slap on the most pistons we can find) will place too much load on the front tires and likely INCREASE stopping distance and could mess with the ABS. The G-Meter in your butt may think the thing is standing on its nose, which it probably is, but using proper instruments in controlled conditions will show a different result. The over amplified signal from over sized components will also make the pedal more like a micro-switch, which is also misinterpreted as “Man, I barely touch the pedal and the thing is already into ABS.” Again, the butt G-Meter says “Woo Hoo!”, but is it really predictable and drivable that way? Adding torque to the rear (such as moving the front calipers to the back) can cause rear lock-up and/or adverse ABS intervention and cause the vehicle to lose control. The benefit of a brake upgrade is not dramatically shorter stopping distances, though we do usually see a slight improvement. Buy really good tires and the stock brakes will stop in a measurably shorter distance. What a brake kit WILL provide is much increased heat capacity and better pedal feel due to a stiffer caliper and the addition of stainless lines. The stiffness of the new components does help with stopping distance as the signal from your foot to the tires is shortened due to less loss of efficiencies due to flex in the stock system.



Can you give me some statistics for improvements over the stock system that I already have from the Stoptech Kit?



I don’t have test results at hand and we typically don’t publish that data. With reference to the previous statement, shorter stopping distance is always a goal, but not our ultimate sign off on a brake kit. We test with all the exact same components in terms of vehicle, tires and track conditions, and test much more than just stopping distance.



Just to emphasize the point, OE manufacturer's design all the dynamic control systems around stock components. ANY change to the vehicle may have an adverse effect on how the platform reacts in a panic situation. Sometimes it may be better, sometimes it may be worse. ABS is taking data from the wheel sensors and responding to that data based on how it was programmed with STOCK components. If you change something, lets say much larger piston volume in the front calipers, as ABS is reading data and trying to correct things, the signals it is sending to the brakes (apply/release/apply/release/apply/release) may not have the expected result due to the increased volume of fluid needed to actuate the brakes and the over amplified brake torque that results. It's working overtime to figure out if you are locking up on all four wheels on ice or 2 wheels off in the gravel. Add to that aftermarket shocks, wheels and tires, changes to the engine; let's say part of the dynamic control is to reconfigure the timing to control the engine but the thing is chipped or artificially aspirated... all this is why we stick close to the stock balance on the brakes; we want to do all we can to lessen the impact of our parts on the rest of the vehicle while providing the most benefit in a very controlled manner.


More information:

http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/tech_white_papers.shtml

Are you saying the rear options are really just for looks and that my stock calipers with Stoptech rotors, pads and lines perform just as well as any rear BBK?


YES. I have had countless conversations that start out with my telling the customer straight out why they do not need a rear kit and after I explain it, we'll still sell it to them anyway. Buy it for the right reasons - not better performance; you just dig the way it looks. We don't offer a rear kit for the FX as it is not necessary and the aftermarket probably won't support the development investment. Tell me you've not only put on the boost, but have the coil-over suspension that has been set up on race car scales. You've stripped out the interior and added a cage. You've added aero down force front and rear, you're running race compound tires and are seeing trap speeds on the track over 130mph. Then we'll start talking about a real need for a rear upgrade.


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In the end, we have a luxury SUV. I'm with Turbo - I hate the look of the rear caliper especially when in comparison to the front. Especially if I end up going with new wheels that show off the rotors better - it'll be more obvious. If I had it to do over again, I might go with a kit that performed in the front and looked good in the back. But I'll probably stick with my Stoptech kit for the forseeable future.
 
jumbosrule said:
In the end, we have a luxury SUV. I'm with Turbo - I hate the look of the rear caliper especially when in comparison to the front. Especially if I end up going with new wheels that show off the rotors better - it'll be more obvious. If I had it to do over again, I might go with a kit that performed in the front and looked good in the back. But I'll probably stick with my Stoptech kit for the forseeable future.
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jumbosrule -- interesting you bring this up (StopTech research), it is one of my main sources of information. I recently was researching to see which brake fluid to use as well:
http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_brakefluid_1a.shtml

I also read/skimmed most of these white papers:
http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/tech_white_papers.shtml

Here's a big hint, that's a picture of my rear wheel and caliper.
 
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