your child seat

jonv8944s said:
...No compromise for safety is happening. The Latch system is designed to take 'forces' from all moments of movement, not just one. Thats how accidents happen, randomly and at all different angles, therefore the Latch system must provide for those.
...l
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You're missing my point. When the child seat is correctly installed, the latch anchors and seat fasteners are colinear, and perpendicular to the mounting plate, which is roughly 45 degrees off horizontal. Regardless of the angle of impact in an accident, the child seat can't move up or down because doing so would compress the seat cushion or seat back. It is effectively "secured" but with a measure of compliance to allow the seat cushions to absorb the "forces". What you did by removing the cushion is remove half the load dampening capabilities of the system and change the angle of the fasteners so that the seat can now move up much further before pushing against the seat back.

Here's a picture of one of the anchors: see how its angled so that correct installation results in the hoop and seat strap being parallel? If you removed the lower cushion in the car pictured, the safe working load would be substantially decreased in any (and every) accident situation in which the brackets are needed.
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I'm not sure if you read my update but the issue was the access to the Latch system, which was resolved by finding the correct access slots in the seats.

However, since you seem to want to argue the merits/requirements of a 45 degree angle, I'd love to see the research proving so, other than your belief in such. I've seen plenty of articles that explain how you can adjust the angle of the children’s car seats (and there by the angle of attachment to the latch system) by using towels and other items beneath the car seats. It seems the angle of the seat is changeable within a range, which also means, so is the use range of the latch system.
 
jonv8944s said:
I'm not sure if you read my update but the issue was the access to the Latch system, which was resolved by finding the correct access slots in the seats.

However, since you seem to want to argue the merits/requirements of a 45 degree angle, I'd love to see the research proving so, other than your belief in such. I've seen plenty of articles that explain how you can adjust the angle of the children’s car seats (and there by the angle of attachment to the latch system) by using towels and other items beneath the car seats. It seems the angle of the seat is changeable within a range, which also means, so is the use range of the latch system.
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Ok, it's clear to me now that you're either incapable or unwilling to understand what I'm trying to say, and that your chief concern is being "right". That said, and considering the fact that in this case you're not right, there's nowhere we can go from here.

For anyone else who might read this thread: Randomly modifying a very well designed and exceedingly important system without so much as a fleeting grasp on the most basic mechanical principles, like leverage, is a horrible idea. Doing so for the sake of aesthetics is downright irresponsible. If you are not completely sure that you have installed your child seat correctly as both the seat and vehicle manufacturer have specified, for the sake of your children take 5 minutes out of your day and READ THE OWNERS MANUAL or ASK AN EXPERT. Child safety is a serious matter. It's also a good idea to have your installation reviewed by a professional before your child is strapped in for the first time. Most every police station and/or fire dept in the country offers free inspections due to the high percentage of incorrect installations. I had mine checked before my daughter was born and was told by the fireman who performed the inspection that he finds faults in over 80% of the seats he encounters.
 
jonv8944s said:
So other then a 'rant' you have no evidence to support your 45 degree angle requirement theory?
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It baffles me that you're clinging to that little detail when that is in fact the single meaningless aspect of my explanation. If you are actually interested in mechanics or engineering I advise that you take a class. I'd suggest reading my posts again but at this point it's painfully obvious that you lack the reading comprehension skills required to make sense of what I wrote.
 
Chedman13, I believe the topic that I am trying to discuss is relevant. Tchuck is trying to exert upon us his expertise in this area, and I disagree with him. I ask him to provide evidence on what I believe is SOLEY a theory of his. There was no impairment or degradation of the latch system based on the installation I originally did with the seat cushion removed. I clearly agreed with others, the only thing that was sacrificed was 'a compliant ride.' Other then the aesthetics of how much better it looks with the cushion in vs removed, I see no other justifiable reason (oh besides compliant ride for the kids) that my alternative isnt acceptable. Tchuck is taking it personally as he is making personal attacks against me, I think that shouldn’t be tolerated, but having a discussion about the usefulness of the latch system in multiple degrees of installation, I thought was quite relevant. I'll drop the subject because tchuck is turning it into some kind of pissing contest instead of just providing some evidence to support his claim.
 
jonv8944s said:
...There was no impairment or degradation of the latch system based on the installation I originally did with the seat cushion removed. ...
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Back on topic - the statement above is speculative and uninformed nonsense. As proof I will submit the installation instructions provided by both the seat and vehicle manufacturer. Neither of which mention any single approved modification of the LATCH system.
 
If you can't see how the latch anchors utilize the vehicle seats to restrain the child seat then I don't know what to tell you. I honestly can't simplify the concepts any more than I already have.
 
If you cant see/accept that the same restraints exists when the latch system is utilized by tightening it down against the rigid chassis, then I dont know how I can simplify it for you anymore.
 
Same thing on the first gen. There are slits in the seat but the actual LATCH anchors are quite deep that thr car seat buckle needs to go in tge slits. After a while those slits become full blown black holes depending on the size of the carseats "clip in@ buckle

---------- Post added at 08:37 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:35 AM ----------

Having said that removing the bottom pad will preserve it but I wouldn't do it
 
+1 found the same to be true of the FX seat mounting points, they are not so seat friendly. I wanted to modify the seat angle and asked the city appt. "expert," she said no to my idea and cinched everything down so tight the torque on my leather made me wince. Kids send most of their ride time in my wifes car and they are in boosters, not an issue in either car now. I would suggest checking with an "seat expert" before modifying anything.
 
I am back to 'stock' ... lol. I think the debate has side tracked that I explained that was the case a few days ago :). It was actually a benefit to have removed the rear seat previously because its required to do so to install the DVD head rests (Which I knew and was one of the catylsts for me doing the removal in the first place, I knew I had to do so for the DVD headrests), Which once it was uninstalled, I left it out and bolted the kids seats down to the chassis as explained. But after installing the DVD headrests in, and learning of the 'slits' to access the latch system through the rear seat, I returned it back to stock. Although admitedly I liked how the kids sat about 8 inches lower, it seemed they were more protected should and accident occur, because its much harder to penetrate the metal door that shrouded them completely, vs the current setup which has their heads in the same plane as the glass window.
 
Is there a way to have a rear facing seat in the back and also leg room in the front seat? The manual says not to use the latch system in the center rear. Can the seat belt method work in the center? With a rear facing seat in the rear passenger seat, the front passenger seat is nearly unusable.
 
porkandbeans said:
Is there a way to have a rear facing seat in the back and also leg room in the front seat? The manual says not to use the latch system in the center rear. Can the seat belt method work in the center? With a rear facing seat in the rear passenger seat, the front passenger seat is nearly unusable.
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Not that I've found, though some seats are shorter than others in the dimension that matters. With the little one onboard, my wife is the only one who fits in the passenger seat. I just adjust the seat back when I have other passengers (and no baby). Do you have a seat/base combo or just a seat?
 
tchuck said:
Not that I've found, though some seats are shorter than others in the dimension that matters. With the little one onboard, my wife is the only one who fits in the passenger seat. I just adjust the seat back when I have other passengers (and no baby). Do you have a seat/base combo or just a seat?
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I just put the base and seat in for test fit. There's hardly any front passenger room. I was figuring to leave the empty carrier locked in the base for safe keeping, but I'll have to pull it for solo sanity. Before setting it up, I was hoping to latch it into the center seat. I guess it will be cramped for a while.
 
porkandbeans said:
I just put the base and seat in for test fit. There's hardly any front passenger room. I was figuring to leave the empty carrier locked in the base for safe keeping, but I'll have to pull it for solo sanity. Before setting it up, I was hoping to latch it into the center seat. I guess it will be cramped for a while.
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Yeah, I take the baby inside in the seat whether she's awake or not for just that reason.

There's definitely no center LATCH position, but I'm not sure about the seat belted center position. I didn't consider it because our seat base in the center position blocks both seat backs from folding forward and I carry big things pretty regularly.
 
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