Transmission Failure - AWD vs RWD?

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Frankiago

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There hasn't been many boundaries crossed with the 5AT, and even fewer with the AWD version. I know rookie's 5AT is holding up with valve body and torque converter upgrade? Don't have too many details on his transmission, most people focus on his twin snails and how much power he's putting to the rear wheels with much disregard for his tranny.

As some of you may or may not know, I'll be turbocharged with a built motor pretty soon.

For now the transmission is stock. I have an oil cooler but I plan on also putting in a transmission cooler, upgraded radiator, and a MONSTER intercooler (as big as I can cram in there, maybe even after some trimming).

I was wondering, if after a valve body upgrade, torque converter upgrade and tranny cooler, should I be worrying about my transmission being AWD? Should it be a little more stout and/or have the power more distributed since it's going to 4 wheels? Or is there more to it and I have some other problems to worry about going wrong?

Also, can anybody point me in the direction of high power on AWD 5AT? The only place I could see it happening is on the G35x, and as far as the FX35 goes, I can't think of an example of pushing high power on the AWD tranny...

For now I'm only shooting for 400 whp / 400 wtq, but next year I want to bump it up with water/meth inj, CO2 sprayed IC and 50-75 shot N2O and possibly hit about 450-475 whp.

The N2O is really for jumping off the line and I don't intend on using it much on the top end, but when I start hitting the track who knows how greedy I'll get... :frown:
 
Btw, there's currently fully built tranny options for us 5AT guys, with the price tag from SGP coming in around $4400.

As for the Level 10 upgrades, it's been talked down like no other tranny upgrade. Apparently the 350Z crowd (LOTS of 5AT guys pushing 350-450 rwhp) really dislikes L10's work and they scream at somebody trying to order a L10 upgrade and tell them to go with SGP instead.

With THAT being said, I'll probably be going with SGP VB + TC.
 
sorry to get OT and away from your question but...what limits has the stock 5AT tranny gone without any failure? i started to get into talks with Alex @ VTR about a turbonetics ST kit and i'm just wondering if i'll need any transmission work done (didn't discuss it with him yet)
 
That's still on topic.

Nobody really knows lol. I'm trying to figure that out at my350z.com and actually get some real numbers on people destroying their 5AT.

I don't ever remember reading threads about a screwed 5AT on my350z.com, but then again they may be there and I just haven't seen them.

The STOCK transmission is RATED at 100,000 shifts at 330 ft-lbs torque (crank, about what the transmission will actually feel).

We do have a tranny cooler stock, but it's nowhere near big enough for a healthy transmission dealing with more power. I'll let ya know what I find out from the more experienced 5AT my350z.com crowd.
 
i have been browsing around on my350z too, just not looking for the tranny problem/issue (i kinda LOL'd at that...real mature eh?). so if our stock transmission is rated at 330 ft-lbs torque, if we're pushing anything higher than that we would need some VB work done or a 'torque converter?'
 
I know rookie had the lvl10 tranny kit upgrade done. He bought it and had it done somewhere in San Diego. It's the same upgrade Conrad has on his 45. I never visit 350z so I don't know any of the gripes some may have, but from my experience with them has been good.
 
I have the Forged Performance VB mod, Sharif had some issues with a G35 that came thur his shop and the VB mod that ended up costing a lot of time and labor for troubleshooting so he no longer offers the mod. I'm sure he may offer it if a special request happened but it's not on the site anymore.

I had the L10 TC and it was fine, but I do believe it was overheating my transmission in everyday driving. After doing my commute was when it felt really really bad in stop and go driving. Would lunge forward at weird moments in the lower rpm band. This was a TC that didn't require a core exchange, yet they sent a slip with the TC saying I was supposed to send mine in as core. That price paid for a no core exchange TC I didn't think twice of sending mine in.

With the overheating issues with the L10 TC, I sent my original to Edge Racing to be modified. Much happier with this one in daily driving and I was doing fine at the track with it. Maybe it was the fluid cooler that was added, but the L10 had brand new fluid in it when they installed it. Much happier with this TC, than the L10 for sure. I've seen Conrad post I should be running a higher stall to launch hard and faster, well you have to live with the mods and I wasn't going to live with a TC that felt like turd in normal driving. Cutting 2.0 60fts with a TC that's liveable is not bad by any means, considering I should have more turbo lag off the line than a NA FX.

The tranny kit thing from L10 is questionable. I've posted pics of the kit on my350z and some have said the clutches pictured are no better than what's in there, kind of cool to put in new pieces either way. One of the european 45s that got the same kit pm'd me saying he didn't see any extra anything (clutches) when they did the tear down and rebuild which sucks. Maybe they add stuff and make it better when they do the work themselves but, like VRT it doesn't take too many people reporting the same thing to make you question what you're actually getting.

My tranny has been cool, It's been boosted for 35k miles I think. Multiple fluid changes, track days, I accelerate hard when getting on the freeway as well so I don't granny it all the time. In street driving I do drive as normal as possible since I'm paranoid about getting popped for all the mods but I do let loose on the freeways.
 
rookie said:
considering I should have more turbo lag off the line than a NA FX.
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You don't say... :laugh: hehe just pullin your leg Viet, not exactly sure what you were referring to here.

But thanks for the full write-up on your experience. That's basically what I've been reading minus the parts about the clutch packs looking no different? Ouch.

I'll probably try out the SGP VB and add a cooler. I'm still iffy on TC upgrade. I'll look into it a little more and see if my torque-goals are on par with needing a new TC. For now it's definitely going to be the VB and cooler.

Upgrading the TC will generally produce more heat in the tranny (calm down brown :tongue:) due to higher stall and higher torque to the tranny causes more slippage and thus more heat.

A tranny cooler is almost a necessity with FI on the 5AT.

The only destroyed 5AT I've heard of was one that had a L10 TC upgrade.

I destroyed my stock tranny with a 3500 stall torque converter (should have done the valve body first). I have since replaced the tranny and got the valve body upgrade and gone back to the stock converter... no issues any more.

It was an Edge Racing TC. The car is putting down 385rwhp.

The tranny was running a little hot so I installed a B&M tranny cooler. Then it was running a lot better. Put the 3500 TC on and progressively it got worse. Within a month it was dead.
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Same guy referring to the SGP VB he had put in later:
Have never missed a shift. When you floor it at speed, it downshifts HARD... actually a double downshift. From a dead stop, it takes off really smoothly and will chirp the tires shifting into second and third. Very stout.

Under normal driving the shifts are strong but not teeth chipping hard. It does take a little bit of getting used to. Trust me though, it is all worth it.
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lol, just referring to some comments I've read. :smile: I'm happy to not have to read them anymore! :biggrin:

Heat is the big thing to combat. I did experience the tranny going into safe mode with the L10 TC. Would drive ok in auto but in manual it would not go into the upper gears and would just generally act really really bad. Considering it was brand new fluid I was happy to get that thing out of my FX.

the trans kit info was pm'd to me by another L10 kit buyer. He mentioned it to me, I did not ask so I can only assume he was being honest. SGP has had some rocky history lately but whatever transmission shop they are using seems to be working.
 
djdorifto said:
wonder if we can stuff in a 6spd tranny... any discussion on this idea before? I would imagine it be pretty expensive
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Stuff in? The 350Z comes in 6MT or 5AT, the exact same 5AT that we use.

The swap is relatively simple (it's been done I think twice on G35 sedans)... so if you wanna use the 6MT Nissan uses in the 350Z and G35's then there's just the minor fabrication issues and the ECU to worry about, otherwise it bolts right up.

I was thinkin about going this route if I happen to trash my current tranny :tongue:
 
Cube said:
Stuff in? The 350Z comes in 6MT or 5AT, the exact same 5AT that we use.

The swap is relatively simple (it's been done I think twice on G35 sedans)... so if you wanna use the 6MT Nissan uses in the 350Z and G35's then there's just the minor fabrication issues and the ECU to worry about, otherwise it bolts right up.

I was thinkin about going this route if I happen to trash my current tranny :tongue:
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6MT FX35 AWD...now that would be balllinn
 
Yeah the G/Z trannies should be perfect fits, having a stand alone ecu like GTM did would make things a lot easier. Technosquare has put a 6MT into a M35 but it's a drift car, not sure how many of the creature comforts were retained. :eek:
 
Actually when I was at TS the last time earlier this year that M35 was not finished due to the fact that the 6MT tranny was a hair shorter so they were trying to come up with something to fill that gap. Don't know if they succeeded or not though.
 
brown_fv said:
6MT FX35 AWD...now that would be balllinn
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Somehow I don't think it's that simple. I believe you'd end up RWD, don't think that tranny would support AWD?

It WOULD be sweet to have 6MT FX35 AWD TT... probably my ideal car. Comfortable daily driver that'll out-perform almost any car you see on the street.
 
grrr. seems like the FX was a poor car for me to look into, cause I'm gonna be modding like crazy now haha... *must save money for project car*

still need to remember the engine and tranny is the same as the 350 and the G35... still learning guys :wink:
 
djdorifto said:
still need to remember the engine and tranny is the same as the 350 and the G35... still learning guys :wink:
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Hahah... that's the basis behind our FX35 performance forum(s) and threads! I have a 350Z's engine sitting in my engine bay! Heheh... you definitely got the wrong version if you were looking to stay completely stock (FX45 has little engine modification opportunity).
 
Hi Cube,
Were you able to find out more about the tranny regarding AWD? I'm also planning to go FI, and was going to upgrad the tranny with L10 VB & TC. After reading Viet's feed back, and your discovery I've changed my mind. The FX is a daily driver. Last thing I want is to have it jerk around and over heat on a daily basis.

I went to my350z.com and it seems GTM or SGP comes highly recommended. I'm pretty sure the VB & TC will be good enough for Stillen's stage 4. I was planning on gettting those 2 things done prior to the s/c. I'm going to email GTM to see if they have a solution, and what it will cost.
 
Sorry I haven't gotten any more information. There just simply isn't enough trial and error with our AWD tranny to give any real-life testimonial. I might, within 6 months or so, venture into some new territory being that I'll have one of the more powerful AWD FX's...
 
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