German engineering compared to Infiniti

J

jayrandall

Member
Over the weekend, I test drove the new 2012 Audi A6. As I pulled away in the test drive, the obvious difference between the transmission of this euro (compared to my FX35) were really apparent! The car was so silky smooth and 'competent' (can I use that word?) compared to both my current 2009 FX35 (20's) and a new 2011 M56S that I test drove a few weeks ago.

Now I know the drill, we're Infiniti, we build sports cars, etc. But aren't Audi (and BMW) doing the same? Seemed to me that the Audi Sports mode (Dynamic) was just as tuned to 'fun, feel the pavement' but without knocking your teeth out.

Am I missing the point? Or, are Audi and BMW just better at engineering vehicles? To me, the difference was startling.
 
I own 2009 FX35 and 2010 X6.

you can't compare. each has its flaws and each has its strengths.

I take BMW performance and tightness, but hate reliability the spartan interior.

Love FX interior and comfort but hate lack of braking power and responsiveness.

and as the side note moding BMW is WAAAAAAAAAY more expensive.
 
jayrandall said:
Over the weekend, I test drove the new 2012 Audi A6. As I pulled away in the test drive, the obvious difference between the transmission of this euro (compared to my FX35) were really apparent! The car was so silky smooth and 'competent' (can I use that word?) compared to both my current 2009 FX35 (20's) and a new 2011 M56S that I test drove a few weeks ago.

Now I know the drill, we're Infiniti, we build sports cars, etc. But aren't Audi (and BMW) doing the same? Seemed to me that the Audi Sports mode (Dynamic) was just as tuned to 'fun, feel the pavement' but without knocking your teeth out.

Am I missing the point? Or, are Audi and BMW just better at engineering vehicles? To me, the difference was startling.
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Look at price point and reliability. If you put those at a higher priority, Infiniti wins.

There is a world of difference as you mention. Just open and close the car door of a German car and compare that to an Infiniti -- German cars win hands down and that is just a precursor to how well built they are. Less road noise, more solid build, etc...

My BMW has no options and cost more than my Infiniti. What is the "true driving experience" worth to me in the real world of hauling stuff at Home Depot and my family around? Infiniti wins hands down with navigation, rear dvd, etc... for a base model BMW (in my scenario when I was comparing).

If I had unlimited disposable income, my FX45 would be replaced by a BMW X6 M modded by DINAN or Mercedes Benz G55 AMG.

I think the total package by Infiniti is unbeatable, which is why I'm such an Infiniti fan.
 
So we all agreed that for the price one pay for a Infiniti it worth every single dollar and more.. We could compare both automaker but it wouldn't be a fair comparison the price for a European vehicle is sky high and most of the time is just base entry. For the same price you could get almost a nearly fully loaded Infiniti..

Plus as other members mentioned.. Go ahead and try to mod a European vehicle.. It's pricey.. Not that modding a Infiniti is cheap but is way more affordable than a European car.
 
Drove an Audi S5 yesterday. Handled great, and was fast, but was just so boring to drive. There was no exhaust note and all you could hear was the light whirrr from the engine. Made it feel slower than it was. Oh and it took me a while to figure out how to turn down the AC fans. I've always had trouble using Audi's electronics in their recent vehicles.
 
Like you guys said, each has its flaws and wins. I have 2 BMWs always was a German car fanatic but finally took over my dad and went with Japanese. Now that I compare the costs of not only maintainance where Infiniti just wins hands down, also modding is expensive. But BMW and Mercedes still has more options to mod that Infiniti sometimes lack. Overall I love my FX for it's interior and attention to detail. It's like my comfy suit, where my BMW are like my favorite sneakers:). At the end of the day I can get dirty in both of them:)
 
I don't think it has anything to do with German engineering, but more on the lines that BMW and Audi have been doing this whole luxury thing longer than Infiniti. I think Infiniti still has some developing to do. You have to remember Infiniti has only been around since 89 where as Audi and BMW have been doing luxury decades and decades. They know this stuff.

German cars do feel "tighter" but really there no better than Infiniti in terms of rattles, squeaks, etc etc. I see complaints about those things alot on bimmerpost. Japs have better reliability and technolgy than German cars. And German cars are better engineered, but their reliability is crap. I'm a strong believer in thinking you get a Japanese car, buy it, and keep it forever. German cars should only be leased. That way when they start racking up miles and breaking down, let it become someone else's problem.

But anyways they both have their ups and downs. It a shame though that alot of German cars aren't even built in Germany like they use to be alot are built in the south U.S, Mexico, Africa, etc.
 
Fire0nic3FX said:
I don't think it has anything to do with German engineering, but more on the lines that BMW and Audi have been doing this whole luxury thing longer than Infiniti. I think Infiniti still has some developing to do. You have to remember Infiniti has only been around since 89 where as Audi and BMW have been doing luxury decades and decades. They know this stuff.

German cars do feel "tighter" but really there no better than Infiniti in terms of rattles, squeaks, etc etc. I see complaints about those things alot on bimmerpost. Japs have better reliability and technolgy than German cars. And German cars are better engineered, but their reliability is crap. I'm a strong believer in thinking you get a Japanese car, buy it, and keep it forever. German cars should only be leased. That way when they start racking up miles and breaking down, let it become someone else's problem.

But anyways they both have their ups and downs. It a shame though that alot of German cars aren't even built in Germany like they use to be alot are built in the south U.S, Mexico, Africa, etc.
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I should have leased my BMW. Even paying the extra warranty and extra maintenance package, what a pain.

I've complained about this before, but a small example is -- what I can't go out and just change the battery? I have to bring it to the dealership and have the ECU programmed to recognize the new battery!
 
Chedman13 said:
Look at price point and reliability. If you put those at a higher priority, Infiniti wins.

There is a world of difference as you mention. Just open and close the car door of a German car and compare that to an Infiniti -- German cars win hands down and that is just a precursor to how well built they are. Less road noise, more solid build, etc...

My BMW has no options and cost more than my Infiniti. What is the "true driving experience" worth to me in the real world of hauling stuff at Home Depot and my family around? Infiniti wins hands down with navigation, rear dvd, etc... for a base model BMW (in my scenario when I was comparing).

If I had unlimited disposable income, my FX45 would be replaced by a BMW X6 M modded by DINAN or Mercedes Benz G55 AMG.

I think the total package by Infiniti is unbeatable, which is why I'm such an Infiniti fan.
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+1 on the X6 M modded by DINAN. That is the only ride I would trade my FX for in a min. But in all reality...Infiniti is the best bang for your buck.
 
The main reason why german cars feel more solid is because the europeans like their cars stiff, responsive, and they like to feel the drive where as japanese cars are engineered towards the japanese market with the extremely feather light steering and such. Then again Infiniti is still new to the luxury market so they have long ways to go but they definitely did a good job so far.
 
Fire0nic3FX said:
German cars do feel "tighter" but really there no better than Infiniti in terms of rattles, squeaks, etc etc. I see complaints about those things alot on bimmerpost. Japs have better reliability and technolgy than German cars. And German cars are better engineered, but their reliability is crap. I'm a strong believer in thinking you get a Japanese car, buy it, and keep it forever. German cars should only be leased. That way when they start racking up miles and breaking down, let it become someone else's problem.
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Well said. I must say, I feel like I have less issues with any of the Jap cars we have (had) than all of our German ones. We finally gave up on Audi and swear to never own one again. BMW is incredibly plasticky lol.

But again we guys wouldn't have much to do if they didn't break :):cool:

---------- Post added at 01:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:57 PM ----------
StuLax18 said:
Did someone say last a long time?

0705dp_12_z+mercedes_benz_300cd_diesel+front_view.jpg
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True! My mom still has her 91 BMW 325 convertible, original engine, original tranny, hell original everything, but only because she thinks like a guy and maintains all of her rides exceptionally well.

View attachment 240847
 
Navi

Fire0nic3FX said:
Japs have better reliability and technolgy than German cars. And German cars are better engineered, but their reliability is crap.
Click to expand...

Disagree here a bit, based on what I saw over the weekend in the 2012 Audi A6, their navigation now includes Google Earth, and even without it, the screen is filled wiht 3D building renderings no matter where you are. Much nicer then the latest navgation offering from Infiniti.
 
Different philosophies, different cultures, different end product. The Germans tend to over engineer everything at the expense of function and reliability. They'll stuff every computer gadget into a car, but it may not always be easy to use nor last very long. A friend of mine won't let people roll the windows down in his BMW unless they have to because the motors keep going. I've seen several E Classes (the last generation) where the driver's window won't roll down anymore. SMG transmissions on the E46 M3's are of questionable reliability (although very well engineered when they first debuted). My father in law is a European car mechanic and he refuses to buy them anymore. He's owned BMW's and Mercedes in the past, but drives Lexus now because he sees how many newer BMW, Mercedes, Audi's come into the shop w/ silly problems. Lots of Quattro failures in Audis, Mercedes SLK tops break a lot, etc.

But German cars are beautiful and incredible to drive. I almost got an E92 M3, but then I realized there were far more responsible things to spend money on. If I ever buy a German car, it will be under a warranty of some kind. It was hilarious when my friend's S55 had the air strut fail...until he realized it cost $2K+ to fix.

jayrandall said:
Over the weekend, I test drove the new 2012 Audi A6. As I pulled away in the test drive, the obvious difference between the transmission of this euro (compared to my FX35) were really apparent! The car was so silky smooth and 'competent' (can I use that word?) compared to both my current 2009 FX35 (20's) and a new 2011 M56S that I test drove a few weeks ago.

Now I know the drill, we're Infiniti, we build sports cars, etc. But aren't Audi (and BMW) doing the same? Seemed to me that the Audi Sports mode (Dynamic) was just as tuned to 'fun, feel the pavement' but without knocking your teeth out.

Am I missing the point? Or, are Audi and BMW just better at engineering vehicles? To me, the difference was startling.
Click to expand...
 
to me the break down is, americans & koreans mostly design & built there car centered on cost, it's a factor in every decision about everything, from design to materials to assembly, cost is the #1 criteria everything is based on, so yeah, these are going to be the cheapest as far as "build quality" and build materials goes...

now when it comes to Japanese cars, there more designed for fit & function first, then costs are factored in... the Japanese wind up with the best overall value because of this. not every design & decision is made on cost alone, but it is still a big factor in the overall end product. a Japanese car in my opinion is as balanced as it gets when it comes to quality VS cost... the Japanese seem to do "just enough" all around without the over engineering or cost no object approach of the Germans

now when it comes to Germans, they design absolutely for the design itself. they are not as concerned with cost as much as the best design possible. of course costs has to be factored in somewhere, but with the Germans it's usually an afterthought & cost savings is not as much of an absolute priority as having a great product is, on the higher end of the scale they build with a money no object approach & even on there so called "budget" cars, they will allow a lot more costly materials & procedures if it means a that much better product... yes, German cars are over engineered & there for the highest quality car, but also the most expensive... this also comes into play a lot when it comes to maintaining them & yes, even modding them. if a part fails & is very expensive to replace that seems to be acceptable for a German car because that is what it costs, you want cheap look elsewhere... to own a well used German car you had better either be your own mechanic or be on good terms with a good mechanic because it'as gonna cost you. there the most expensive to own new & also the most expensive to own used

this may just be a generalization & of course there are always exceptions to the rules, but in general this is my take on it after working on literally thousands of cars throughout the years...
 
^+1. Well said. German engineers aren't better, they're just allowed to create better designs.

I do consider my Audi to be a higher quality vehicle than the FX. That said, if I wasn't my own mechanic I wouldn't own it at all...

Sent from my BlackBerry 9800
 
Japan- car electronic 10x better than German, how many times do u see a Mercedes, Bmw and etc, with one working fog light, head light or even angel light..

But Germans build there cars tough, heavy duty suspension stuff..
My friend has 2005 X5, burns the car, tracks, speeds over 100 always on freeway, drives wreckless, and his suspension still has no issues. Mine i never tracked, burnout, drove constantly over 100 and my suspension busted couple of times..

Overall, i think Infiniti has a better tranny and engine than Bmw, Mercedes, Audi.. But hey the new generation Infiniti's might be next on the line..
 
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